Bro, they aren’t. They are Death Knights and Necromancers. Same way Paladins are Paladins not Priests. They command the LIGHT to damage or heal. Or Warriors and Rogues. They both use weapons to kill enemies. And so on.
I think you people have an issue with your imagination. You legit lack the imagination to consider that even if 2 classes use the same powers would be different. Necromancers are casters who specialize in forms of magic that involve the raising of undead soldiers and so on.
The Death Knight from Warcraft III had 3 spells that are found in the Unholy tree right now, the rest that also exist in both WoW and Warcraft III were borrowed from other units or other entities from Word of Warcraft, like for example the Anti Magic Shell which if I’m not mistaking was an ability used by Banshees in Stratholme.
So let’s cut the crap please, just say you don’t want the class cause you don’t want a new class or because you want another class. Saying it can’t be done because it’s too similar to an existing class, which it’s not or at least no more than other classes, is dishonest. It’s a lot easier to maintain a discussion if everyone is honest.
bruh, I literally write fantasy books.
Death knights are TEXTBOOK DEFINITION necromancers.
it does not matter whether they wield a staff or a sword.
YOU are the one who lacks imagination for thinking necromancers can only be robe wearing staff wielders.
Death knights are necromancers whether you want to accept that fact or not.
Paladins and priests have clear different meanings, as paladins are based on crusaders, NOT priests.
A death knight does not have that same distinction because they are necromancers.
Whether they are at a distance with a staff or up close with a sword it doesn’t matter.
Apparently it’s like a Death Knight that can attack from farther away. These people extoll imagination but can’t do a very good job explaining how Necromancers would be so different from DKs.
honestly it would be easier to just add a new spec onto dk that’s more ranged if they REALLY wanted to add a “traditional” necromancy thing.
There is no way they could realistically make an entire new class with specs based on the same concept and not completely destroy what is already there.
Sure, warlock and dh had some similarities that got stripped from lock.
But they are fully different enough in both spells and play.
This whole argument is basically just:
OP: I would like cauliflower.
Followed by a bunch of pedantic nerds going “Um actually we already have kale. Kale and cauliflower are actually the same plant so we don’t need cauliflower.”
The same place it says that tinker can tank. On blizzards announcement sheet. Then again it may not say either class can tank. they may decide that tinker is two DPS and a heal. we have no way of knowing until they make an announcement.
let’s face it every single post in this thread is a personal opinion. We have no idea what class is coming next or what sort of specs and talents they will have. We are all just playing guessing games and then sitting here arguing with each other over, whose guess is better. i’ll just wait for blizzard to make an announcement.
I am not against a cloth wearing, ranged caster Necromancy themed class, but I just can’t see them creating something that is much different than a Warlock, while still retaining what you want a “Necromancer” to be.
As it is, this would just step on a lot of toes to create something that is just not all that unique. I agree with others; giving the option to reskin demons/spells for Warlocks to give a Necromancer feel might be the best route. No toes stepped on, and you get the theme you would like.
Yes, Warlocks got a demon form ability before Demon Hunters were added to the game as a playable class.
However, Demon Hunters had Metamorphosis in WC3 so I see it as the proper power and ability alignment took place to restore what was torn a sunder.
Using this logic of looking to WC3 roots when comparing to class options in WoW, you can also see that blizzard basically mix and matched both Heros and units abilities into several classes.
With Death Knight, they added both the Death Knight Hero spells from WC3 as well as units spells like Unholy Frenzy (Necromancer) and Raise Dead (Necromancer) though I think Cripple (Necromancer) is not represented in the game? They also took Banshee Anti Magic Shell and Frost Wyrm entirely and Death and Decay from Lich. Probably other bits and bobs from other units.
The point being, they pretty much took all the creative background of what makes one a Necromancer and pushed it into Unholy Death Knight.
To split off an entirely new class under the Necromancer gameplay would require an entirely new gameplay direction and fresh ideas or they will have to rip off a lot of Unholy DK stuff which seems extremely unlikely.
The Necromancer design space is captured already into Unholy DK.
However, if one still wants to push Necromancer class then please, share with the rest of us some at least some base level how it’s both different from Unholy while capturing both the essence of being a Necromancer and remain fun and engaging.
The only other aspect I can think of with Necromancer would be dealing with Blood and Bone which Blood DK covers and Poison which is basically covered for Assassination Rogue.
So what else could you combine together to stand on its own that brings something new, fun and engaging?
It’s a fan concept that was invented to explain how some classes could be modified to make them more compatible with certain races in the future, but now people have spent the last 3 or 4 years acting like it has a chance of being implemented. Now, it’s exclusively talked about in the context of a necromancer skin for warlocks, a dark paladin skin for paladins, or once in a blue moon, a Druid of the Flame skin for druids.
It won’t happen, anyway, because it would likely be a technical nightmare and would completely turn class fantasies on their heads, and the focus on those fantasies in Legion and TWW should be a pretty good indicator that Blizzard has no intention for classes to deviate from the themes that were originally laid out.
Take something like Necromancer. Fundamentally, it’s a different fantasy RPG archetype from either DK or Warlock. It has a kit that can function, both aesthetically and mechanically, different from DK and Warlock.
Imagine a spec around Plagues, a sort of Cult-of-the-Damned++Apothecary+Putricide mix up. Oozes, plague beasts a la Loatheb, Plague Cauldrons (perhaps an AOE version of the Prismatic Crystal for DOTS?), spores, etc.
There are plenty of other ideas that can be worked in here. Phylacteries, a potential Lich form, summoning Zombies, Wights, Ghosts, Skeletons, Bone Constructs like Rattlegore (perhaps using Skellies as a secondary resource?), Coldflame abilities, etc.
And frankly, this is just riffing off from Scourge lore. Since Undeath has taken a prominent focus in WoW, there’s plenty of material, even if we don’t touch the scraps on the DK cutting room floor (Which is really fair game anyhow).
Ultimately, people who are saying “Necromancer can’t work!” have either a tragically LIMITED IMAGINATION or are just spinning narratives to make their preferred next class work better.
There’s not really any coherent argument against them in the age of Demon Hunters.
No, he still posts there. He got banned earlier today for doing excessive circular and semantic arguments after he was warned not to. Pretty much the same thing he was doing here really.
That can work just as well for Death Knights and in fact I think that fits the Unholy Death Knight theme far more than the Necromancer theme.
But that’s the point isn’t it? The amount of work and justification needed to make a the Necromancer theme it’s own stand alone class is incredibly difficult if not downright impossible because of the existence of Unholy Death Knight and Warlock.
The line between those 2 classes is razer thin where any idea that leans caster is already fulfilled by the Warlock and any idea that leans summons minions is both covered by Warlock and Unholy DK and any idea that leans Plague and Death is already covered by the Death Knight.
It’s extremely unrealistic to think you have enough material to create a brand new stand alone class that leans to both existing classes without stepping on each other’s design spaces.
No, this is a “just so” narrative you’re spinning with absolutely no basis. It also verifies that you’re not discussing this in anything approaching good faith. So what’s the actual motive here? Are you a Bard Person or a Tinker Person?
Unholy, thematically, is already stretched in a couple different directions that prevents it from TRULY CAPITALIZING on any individual theme. This is why we’ve seen Unholy get diseases REMOVED over the years, it’s why we’ve seen Unholy get various summons REMOVED over the years.
Both summoning & diseases have to coexist with one another in a very limited design space & sync up with “Heavy armor-wearing juggernaut with a 2-handed Weapon” (The latter part being especially necessary since WotLK ended and Unholy is the sole remaining 2h DPS spec)
No, a plate-wearing Unholy Knight is not going to run around with plague cauldrons, or alchemical concoctions. The “Dark Knight” archetype filled by Unholy doesn’t have room for anything approaching the Apothecary fantasy. Frankly, Unholy BARELY has the room to scratch the surface of its various themes.
Not really, and I’ve already explained as much. I would say this is a lack of imagination and painting with too broad a brush, but you’ve already revealed your hand as being totally insincere here.
However, just to check the boxes, people said the exact same thing about Demon Hunters. “They’re covered ENTIRELY by Monks, Warlocks & Rogues.” Yet somehow, with a much more NARROW fantasy, Blizzard still managed to create an entire class.
Necromancers have a far more broad thematic range, and aren’t pigeon-holed around a single Warcraft Character.
ANY argument against Necromancers went out the window when Demon Hunters were added.
Affliction warlock and shadow priest occupy the exact same design space as DoT focused shadow casters, yet Blizzard was still able to distinguish them.
I’m sure they can handle having a Death caster with minions and a Fel caster with minions.
If we can have a Fel caster and a Fel melee we can have a Death caster and a Death melee as well.