Because WoD segregated the community and stats changing in combat was jarring. Honestly, in terms of game design, I’ve feel we have only seen elevation on Blizzard’s behalf. To me, Legion gearing was a step up from WoD, and BfA was a step up from Legion, and Shadowlands seeks to perfect and fine-tune the system even further.
We have different views then. I’d argue that Devs have moved the game forward with every new expansion.
And you’re entitled to that opinion. But I know after observing the playerbase for multiple expansions can say with full confidence that a majority of PvP players, hated Legion. And weren’t crazy at all about BFAs gearing style. That’s why there has been pushback ranging all the way from top end players to more casual pvpers.
What kind of things did you do for this “observation?”
My observations contradict yours, so which one of us is right?
I think I’m right. Because if Legion gearing was a success, this wouldn’t have gotten so popular.
Hello friends, I am writing this post due to recent concerns regarding PvP gear.
Apologize in advance for the massive use of the terms “PvP gear” and “PvE gear”.
The only advantage PvP gear has in PvP or any other aspect of the game is its item level. PvE set bonuses and trinkets are still far superior in both high end raiding and high end mythic dungeons. This makes sense, high end raiding and dungeons should have beneficial gear for their type of game play.
The issue I’m having is now PvE gear is both easier to obtain and higher item level then its PvP counterpart. Gearing has essentially become irrelevant in PvP and has really taken a back seat this expansion. As a result, its feel like participation is down more than ever.
I’ll give you a bit of an anecdote: I’ve been playing the game since vanilla and haven’t really dipped my feet in much PvE content since early WOTLK. This expansion with +10/+15 chests rewards from Mythic+, I decided it was worth my time to complete this task weekly. I didn’t feel like I was wasting my time and ended up enjoying the content as a way to progress my character. As a result I’ve come to really enjoy this type of content and now participate in Mythic raiding as well. If there wasn’t that initial incentive to try the content and feel good about getting gear, I never would of done it in the first place.
With that in mind I’d like to now compare ways to gear in PvP content vs PvE content. Strictly in terms of item level here’s a list from worst to best.
845 From normal dungeons
870 Random battlegrounds
885 Mythic +0
900 Crafting with blood of sargeras
900 Chest from winning a brawl once every two weeks.
910 Reliquished
915 LFR Antorus
925 LFR Argus
930 Normal Antorus
930 Rare drop from being 2400 rated in arena and winning a match.
940 Guaranteed from every mythic +15
940 Weekly PvP cap for being 2000 rated in arena.
940 Normal Argus
945 Heroic Antorus
950 Weekly PvP cap for being 2400 rated in arena.
955 Heroic Argus
960 Mythic Antorus & Weekly chest from m+ 15
970 Mythic ArgusThese aren’t the only ways of gearing but most.
For a new or casual player it’s easy to see why gearing in PvE is not only much more rewarding but also guaranteed.
Do you know how many times I’ve heard my PvP buddies say “Lets go get our weekly +15 done” compared to my PvE friends saying “Lets go get 2400 rating so we can get our weekly cap done!”. Even if you completely disregard the difficulty of achieving that rating in PvP, there’s a monumental time difference in the two tasks, they’re not even comparable. And yet, the weekly chest is still higher item level.
A reasonable item level to compete at higher end PvP and PvE is around 940.
Anyone aiming for this goal wouldn’t waste their time PvP.Reminder:
940 Guaranteed from every mythic +15 (GUARANTEED FOR COMPLETING, NOT EVEN IN TIME)
940 Weekly PvP cap for being 2000 rated in arena. (ONCE A WEEK)
940 Normal Argus (ONCE A WEEK)
945 Heroic Antorus (10 BOSSES A WEEK)
950 Weekly PvP cap for being 2400 rated in arena. (ONCE A WEEK)
955 Heroic Argus (ONCE A WEEK)
960 Mythic Antorus (10 BOSSES A WEEK) & Weekly chest from m+ 15 (ONCE A WEEK)
970 Mythic Argus (ONCE A WEEK)Here’s my WW monks armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/tichondrius/venfuki
I’ve played 219 games of arena this season at roughly 2500 MMR & 2400 CR. So far this season I’ve received 0 upgrades. The only pieces of PvP gear that remain for me are 2 pieces of elite warforged, something most players would never have access to. What’s really disheartening is this problem is even worse for casual, low rated and mid tier PvPers.
People should feel incentivized to play all aspects of WoW. Currently PvP gear has taken a massive back seat and as a result participation and interest feels lower than ever.
Am I alone in feeling this way?
This was by Venruki. This guy
https://yhstars.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Venruki.jpg
The same guy who goes on the stage and hosts Blizzards AWC and Blizzcon championship. I would link the thread he made with this being the OP, but its been deleted since I believe it was on the old WoW forums. Which is now deleted.
Which the changes came in for BFA. One of their bigger announcements of the expansion was the return to Conquest points. But we’ve seen a slew of issues that came along with that as well. And even then players aren’t happy with how things have been going for the game with the scaling tech becoming the butt of the joke for PvPers thanks to Rextroy the emphasis on PvE gear being superior and easier to acquire through M+ and to a lesser extent Raiding and dumb systems like corruption running rampant and 1 shotting even geared players.
With observing how players have been reacting to PvP for the past 2 expansions I confidently state that it has blown chunks and hasn’t been well received by the playerbase.
Yes, Venruki is amazing. He’s incredibly brilliant and very handsome, and for that reason, I thank you for sharing this picture.
However, I don’t think Venruki, nor his one post, can represent the majority of community sentiment. I think there’s a ton of flaws with that…people could like and agree with the post because they like the poster, he could have advertised it to his community, etc. There are many ways to artifiicially increase the popularity of posts which would manipulate the interpreted community sentiment.
And I can confidently say the opposite.
Yeah but they abandoned some ideas in exchange for worse implemented ones though. So there are things to praise but there are also things that just leave with you scratching your head.
but loved templates
Can you elaborate and give specifics?
you’re in luck I was just trolling through my old responses to shut up people about my apparent hate for wod gear.
No there was a thread with plenty of players giving their feedback and agreeing with him. If the sentiment was that Legion was great, everyone would’ve told him to shut up and eat his carrots. Instead what happened was Blizzard moved away from the Legion system entirely and tried to update it in BFA. Which again was not well received.
That’s fine. Like I said you’re entitled to your opinion. I provided my examples.
Oh hey! Yup! There it is!
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/pvp-gearing-is-bad-and-not-fun-help/6562
brain fried from work right now, crunch time at the company all the way to dec 31st. But I’ll put a bookmark reminder to elaborate later today or tomorrow
I’ve seen the thread. I still think it’s a jump in logic to derive an entire’s community sentiments on the game based on one thread. People are 9 times more likely to leave negative feedback. A large portion of WoW’s biggest critics are still playing the game.
Pilav actually made a really informative video, I think he nails it on the head. You should give it a watch.
That’s fine, I have to leave now as well, have a very important meeting 
That face disturbs me.
Holy Hell Bloom hooked himself a couple of live ones in this thread. Keep casting lures - eventually the fish’ll bite. Reckon angling really is just a game of persistence and patience!
No one I played with loved templates. Everyone either hated them or just stopped playing all together. I am NOT speaking for everyone, just my friends and those I played with. The big issue with templates was the altered style of play when you entered a match. For specs that relied on haste in PvE, to step into arena really could throw you off.
Beyond that, this game is an RPG first. To make gear not matter takes away from the reward. The problem is we have been on two extremes as of late. When gear has mattered the last couple expansions, PvE has dominated and made gearing difficult for player who wanted to PvP only. Vice versa, while templates made for even playing field and potentially a more fair level of play, it also trivialized the rewards players got and made ALL gear from PvP mostly pointless.
There has to be a happy medium. Wrath, MoP, and WoD all did a good job at this. Gear mattered, but it wasn’t overly difficult to get as long as you played. If you were good and played each week, then you would have gear sufficiently good for w/e you wanted to achieve in PvP. Legion and BFA have destroyed that… Templates aren’t needed to fix that. Instead, make gearing through PvP manageable and make getting caught up (like in WoD) simple.
This would be a huge boon for PvP. If the system launches as it is now, a lot of friends I know will again quit. I really wish the PvP community was a bit more cohesive. It’s really sad what blizzard is doing to PvP. I just don’t get it.
Am i the only one that thinks they should bring back resilience gear? What about the players that aren’t interested in PvE content? I just want to do PvP , but feeling that in order to compete, im being forced to do PvE content. What was wrong with PvP during BC and WotLK ?
Maybe , Maybe not , would still like to see pvp gear viable in pve … I do both side of content and the only reason i see pvp having such problem with the gear path is that pure pver always complain when its possible to get good ilvl gear from pvp …
Should be able to get the best gear from both side and mix and match to optimize , that way the only advantage anyone can get in pvp is by having more choice in gear optimization …
So far no expansion ever tried that … and outside a few outraged pvers , i think the majority would be quite happy with something like this over one of the tested systems of the past .
Tho yea mop/wod was quite good for pvp gearing path , though not perfect .
Serious question, do you use the same gear in both PVE and PVP?
My stat priorities were always so different between PVE and PVP.