rogue dodges
OVERPOWAH YEAAAH…MISSES
well im dead…
Obviously I know Im hit capped in pvp but while leveling this was the most annoying thing lol.
if you cant come up with 6% hit in PVP, man I don’t know…
Dont you have some LiP’s to kidney shot into?
Typically that does not happen, only when the LiP graphic does not display and it makes me sad… very sad.
But ya I was making a joke about the misses, and while leveling it’s pretty impossible to be hit capped. Also its 5%.
some people have a little extra defense, like T1 / T2 wearing warriors… gross.
Im logged out in R10 gear but I have a few pieces of 2.5 with +D. Im sure it pisses people off to miss lol.
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It actually does, and semi annoying if you dont have enough. I noticed it on my under geared warrior alt, that if you dont have enough it gets really bad.
In your double roll theory how many outcomes are there? I assume only regular hit, crit and dodge.
Anyway, if yellow hits are calculated based on a double roll (check if it hits, then check if it crits) then if you have a 20% crit chance your autoattacks should crit 20% of the time, and your yellow hits should crit 20% times [1 - (dodge chance)]. Do the numbers check out? You seem to be adding the dodge rate to the crit chance, instead of multiplying the crit chance by the percentage of attacks that do land.
If the numbers DO check out then the matter is resolved.
Dude, no one was thinking this hard about overpower. If it crits it crits. GG.
Its fairly well accepted that auto swings are a single roll, and I think everyone agrees on that.
The special attacks like sinister strike for example is where that single roll idea falls apart.
I add them because the system appears to be additive in that way, similar to how avoidance works at far as I know in TBC at least were your total avoidance package is additive.
Have a look at one of your characters parses, pick any complete raid.
This is where it gets confusing, I believe you should only look at rogue logs to determine the melee hit calculation. The reason being warriors constantly swap weapons (big two-handers for trash, if the warrior has one, vs dual wielding for bosses) and armor (they swap gear to offtank and occasionally put on a shield). The end result is that none of the percentages at the end make any sense for warriors the way they would for someome using the same gear during the entire raid, and any warrior data can be discarded for this particular discussion.
True, but we can discern a few things but looking at your best case situation because all the gear you use in your raid is logged.
I just picked the first one that showed up.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gZJwDbFMQzq9CcP3#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&source=26Lets have a look at what looks like your crit rate on auto attack, then go from there.
Your auto attack crits 33% of the time, but if we look at your gear, you have 10% hit bast case due to gear swaping, so likely crit capped for auto swings much above 33% in your best case situation.
Your special attacks also tell that story, because your heroic strike is avoided 4.8% of the time. With an effective crit rate of 32%, giving you a potential crit rate of 36.8% if nothing was avoided under a 2 roll system.
Lets look at blood thirst since its another ability warriors us a lot, so we can get some reasonable data out of that.
Blood thirst Crit 31% of the time, 4.05% was avoided, with a potential crit rate of 35.05%, that’s awful close to the HS values.
Seems to hold the same trend.
Also as you look over the parse you see no glancing blows for Special attacks like Heroic Strike, or Bloodthirst, only auto swings.
I haven’t been following along closely but here’s a Warrior from our last AQ 40 run:
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/74Cqc2N3DGyTFPMv#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&source=50
Well, yes, as I said before, yellow hits can’t glance.
What I don’t understand is, if Bloodthirst crit 31% of the time and was only avoided 4.05% of the time (thank edgemasters for that) then, in a double roll situation, the calculation should be:
Chance to not be avoided: 95.95%
Potential crit chance: X
Actual crit chance: 31%
So my potential crit chance, instead of being 31% + 4.05%, should be 31% divided by 95.95%, which would result in a 32.3% crit chance instead of a 35.05% crit chance.
Now, if you controlled for gear, which I don’t know how to do and therefore can’t say you did, we can look at the autoattack crit rate and see how it all adds up.
Option 1 is that yellow hits get determined by a single roll, in which case my autoattacks would crit exactly 31% of the time, assuming I am not crit capped.
Option 2 is that yellow hits get determined by two rolls: one avoidance roll and one crit roll. In that case, my autoattacks should crit 32.3% of the time. Again, I assume that I am not crit capped, which might not be the case if the logs you are looking at had me with world buffs.
Option 3, which is what you say happens, is that my actual yellow crit chance gets added to the percentage of Bloodthirsts that were avoided, and that results in my potential crit chance. For option 3 my autoattacks should crit around 35.05% of the time. The problem is, if option 3 checks out then it isn’t a double roll or single roll, but a completely different calculation we’re failing to see.
So, in the logs you’re referring to, which is closest to my autoattack crit percentage? 31%, 32.3% or 35.05%?
^ Also works, he’s also crit capped on auto attack.
sorry I read your initial comment wrong, we already knew that.
Lets see if we can make some sense of it, same log as before.
Your melee auto attacks are critting 33.3% of the time, and you are getting avoided on melee attacks 19.68% of the time, that’s a massive reduction in output due Dodge, Miss, Miss parry. That figure does not include Blocked attacks and glancing blows because they still deal damage.
If the same single roll system was used your special attacks then the numbers would always be very close to the auto swing rate + whatever the value is for your crit cap on auto attack due to simply not having enough hit to overcome the crit strike value your character has in raid. The in raid crit strike value is different than the value displayed on your character sheet, because bosses have a crit suppression component according to blizzard. I think its 3% or something like that, and they did not say specifically but it looks to be universal to all attacks not just auto swings.
And if we think about it, the double roll system actually makes more sense for a game like this in terms of special attacks because specials cannot glance, and the hit rating to achieve miss protection is much much lower. Also avoidance in PVP would be harshly punished if a single role system was used, pushing the number of critical strike Vs the total number of attacks attempted far above your actual crit strike value. This also makes sense for raid too because if your special attacks got single roll calculations then your actual crit rate VS targets that avoid you would be sky high as a % of attacks that landed, perhaps 100% with abilities like backstab, but in the logs its not what we observe.
From a design perspective double roll makes perfect sense, and solves a lot of problems. For auto swings, because of glancing blows, and because the DW penalty is so high single roll makes sense, and does a lot to keep the calculation budgets a little lower since there are a lot of auto swings happening.
Then it is probably a double roll, because it is very close to what you would get by dividing my actual yellow crit rate by 0.95.
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Sure does look that way, and that’s what the numbers tend to show as long as you have enough data to work with. You can see some really crazy stuff on short fights, but over a whole raid things often tend to settle out a bit. It’s interesting to think how well Warrior DPS would respond to just a little more hit value on their gear because most are crit capped on their auto swings and the whole world buffs providing massive amount of crit, making the crit value on gear less good and hit probably more good.
There is a reason we are willing to murder for DFT.
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How good would the ShadowFlame boots be? Like I have considered getting them on my warrior alt because I also have them on my rogue and its 2% hit and 44 attack power. I know STR is really nice, but man 2% hit just seems so solid when you have world buffs for the AP and crit