Something is wrong with The War Within

[Karkasy-wyrmrest-accord]

@Rothesmonk-stormrage

When a customer says something is wrong, they are almost always right.

anyone who works in customer service knows this is false.

[Feety-lone-wolf]

bunch of baristas in here analyzing business tactics

[Fervent-the-venture-co]

Mythics, at least M0 should be queable within the dungeon finder… so should rated battlegrounds… premade finder is really not that useful. It’s high time that we make everything able to be queued. Keep premade finder as it is so people can still do everything but there is zero reason for this to not be a thing.

[Scaramouche-terenas]

@Rothesmonk-stormrage

When a customer says something is wrong, they are almost always right.

As someone who has worked customer service retail, this is laughably wrong.

There are definitely things that Blizzard needs to work on regarding TWW, but “combat feels awful,” “delves are only okay,” and “hero talents are bad” are entirely subjective and more opinions than true facts.

[Snowpine-ghostlands]

I can explain what the quote actually means in an analogy, if you’d like.

You’re painting a room. You want red walls and blue trim. You know you want this, and you’re not going for advice, you’re just going to get the paints.

Should the person selling you the paint argue about the color combination?

From a business perspective, the answer is no, at least as posited by the quote.

This is almost verbatim what the quote is about.

[Feety-lone-wolf]

@Snowpine-ghostlands

Should the person selling you the paint argue about the color combination?

From a business perspective, the answer is no, at least as posited by the quote.

this guy gets it

[Zenetta-proudmoore (Zenetta)]

@Luxuria-sentinels

Have you considered that maybe some people who didn’t like M+ but played it because it was the best path to gearing they had at hand may have found a better home in Delves?

Delves will not hold people’s attention any longer than M+ did. In fact it will likely die out much faster.

It’s probably why I see people logging in less and less who at least played DF S1 to +20s. Little motivation to progress in M+ and delves aren’t that interesting.

I think M+ in general from the start was too grindy and shot itself in the foot by trying to get people to run the same dungeons too many times. I think M+ would be better for a majority if it stole the delve UI for picking a level and got rid of the key system it currently has and gave people limited end of dungeon weekly keys to open a locked chest at the end similar to bountiful delves.

@Zoumz-zuljin

I don’t think you can claim “objectively” when there are many factors to it.
M+ are still the best way to farm crests, they are still best to fill your vault in term of mythic track gear.

The motivation to do M+ has been cut off from both ends. There’s little motivation to do low level keys because delves are easier and just as rewarding.

The motivation to do higher M+ has died off because you have to get to +10 just to get one mythic track item a week.

In DF S1 I could do a +18 to get an item level that was only 3 below a +20. The gap between a +8 and a +10 in terms of gearing value is much wider in TWW because they are on different upgrade tracks.

I also think the crest system removes the feeling of reward. 9s can get you high ilvl crafted gear, but it comes in time-gated crest form that’s less apparent than the older systems reward structure. I think people aren’t engaging with Blizzard’s convoluted gear track system as much as they had hoped which will hopefully result in useful changes sooner rather than later.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/zdimjn/wow_dragonflight_season_1_gear_infographic/

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1f7oleg/tww_s1_gearing_guide_cheatsheet/#lightbox

But anyway, M+ is objectively factually less rewarding now than it was before compared to other content.

[Swarfmeister-whisperwind]

tww is good bros yall stop hatin

[Holysmöke-area-52]

Sorry you lost me at “the customer is almost always right”. That is a business attitude that worked at one time before everybody was so entitled. But it is far from reality.

[Obvìoús-stormrage]

@Rothesmonk-stormrage

When a customer says something is wrong, they are almost always full of

Fixed that for ya

[Boomdoggle-zuljin]

@Dremin-stormrage

Anyone that’s actually worked in customer service or a job that deals with the public heavily knows for a fact that the customer is almost always wrong.

Is that you, Ion?

[Brewa-hyjal]

TLDR: “M+ needs more welfare gear handed out for doing easy keys.”

[Foxymoxie-eonar]

one thing that feels bad for me is world quests should NOT be tracked for the vault let alone bunched together with Delves. A world quest is not a Delve so they shouldn’t be included with Delves.

[Qamaits-darrowmere (Qamaits)]

@Foxymoxie-eonar

is world quests should NOT be tracked for the vault

Is it world quests or world events like Wakening the Machine, and the Theater Troupe?

[Foxymoxie-eonar]

world quests is what it turns up for me. Why exactly they bunched that together with Delves is beyond me but it’s so dumb

[Brewa-hyjal]

Are you wanting 4 tracks, then, or you just want world quests removed from great vault like they were all along?

[Qamaits-darrowmere (Qamaits)]

Yeah, I agree. It’s a little rough if you make the mistake of doing something that isn’t your current tier of delve before you get all eight done.

[Rawrloll-sulfuras]

@Rothesmonk-stormrage

• When a customer says something is wrong, they are almost always right. When the customer suggests how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.

this is like the worst opening statement you could possibly give.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Zenetta-proudmoore

The mode has a massive decline in participation in S1 compared to S1 of past expansions.

I mean, delves did to M+ what M+ did to raiding back in Legion/BFA.

Gave the same level of rewards for less effort.

[Zenetta-proudmoore (Zenetta)]

Maybe, but raiding was already declining long before Legion.

Legion added 5 man end-game content that people had been asking for for many years. Blizzard likely saw raiding was not retaining players and added a new type of content to try to keep more players around. I quit raiding in Cataclysm. I just had no end-game PvE content for a couple expansions.