They actually say if you want modern balance changes, go to BFA and that wasn’t the video I was referring to. Anyway I’ll stop here because honestly, you and Fesz, are very… frightened for lack of a better word and give double standards for anyone you disagree with.
Perhaps you could provide an actual official Blizzard source stating that they are even considering any non vanilla balance changes for classic.
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really? because you were the one who started with this statement.
when i pointed out tweaks wouldnt work you went with this.
tweaking means
improve (a mechanism or system) by making fine adjustments to it.
what is a fine adjustment about adding entire mechanics to a class? about adding entire gear sets to the game?
and where is my double standard?
i actually agree with apocalypse above. a small tweak would be adding a buff to the vengeance talent in ret tree that makes the entire raid do 5% more physical damage to the target. that is a small tweak that makes paladins a lot more appealing for a dps slot.
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here are the issues facing Paladins alone.
- an entire talent that is contrary to tanking (Redoubt, extra block chance when receiving a critical hit). as a tank you are supposed to not be crit at all. yeah you could change the talent to on hit and it would be better for tanking.
- no taunt.
- no gear setup for tanking in raids
- need a way to regen mana during fights.
- threat is too low single target to be effective tank
so you’re looking at adding a spell, an entire mechanic, changing talents, and adjusting threat.
that’s not just tweaks. if that is tweaks to you, i’d like to see what full blown changes are.
- Fix broken talents.
- He doesn’t need a taunt.
- Fix Tier sets.
- A non-issue if they fix Tier sets.
- A non-issue if they fix Tier sets.
Those are tweaks. He doesn’t need a redesign.
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Not only does no such source exist, but they’ve said the opposite numerous times: they’re not adjusting 1.12 balance. What does Ion think about the issue?
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- Redoubt and reckoning both could move to the TBC era design of functioning on hit.
That’s negligible impact.
- Fixing the lack of taunt is fixed the same way you fix ret having exorcism in naxx, if you where to fix ret… The 31 talent in the tree alters exorcism… For prot it becomes a single target taunt… For ret it converts into a passive melee haste buff… Both trees are compelled to get their 31 talent for pve…neither talent seriously changes pvp
3/4/5 all hybrid set pieces are turned into usable tokens that allow a choice of build when used. This choice then creates a single piece of gear for that spec. The decision is final.
Now hybrids have some gear options for raids and in a manner that doesn’t otherwise change the itemization loot pool (the concern with simply creating new items is that it would dilute the item pools)
Those do not sound like “tweaks” to me.
To me, those sound like major changes, and none of them are even remotely in “the spirit of vanilla” or “vanilla like”.
That’s nonsense lol. T3 is those changes. You go from giving useless stats to giving useful stats.
How are you going to say the source doesn’t exist when you are the one that posted it? You seem to remember the first video but not the second one you posted:
They explicitly state no balance changes to 1.12 but future development (for balancing) is up for grabs depending on feedback from the community, which is what I stated earlier.
T3 isn’t tokens and it doesn’t “allow a choice of build when used”. That is what takes that suggestions out of the realm of “the spirit of vanilla” or “vanilla like”.
Adding new items to loot tables would also be a non vanilla change and not “in the spirit of vanilla” or “vanilla like”.
they also say they want to do what they had before and not what they have now.
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That’s so arbitrary lol!
You can define Classic in these terms “Herp-derp, anything that didn’t happen is also not within the spirit of Vanilla” and it makes just as much sense as what your saying.
And here’s the thing, all you need to do is fix Tier sets so that they give useful stats.
You don’t need to do any of that nonsense about “choice of build”.
Here’s what Paladins need:
Strength
Stamina
Intellect
Spell Damage and Healing
Spell Crit
Mp5
Boom, you’re done! That is all Paladins need to work.
Paladins work just fine. You continue to apply BfA design to Vanilla. Vanilla is about classes, not specs. And every class has a role to play. They’re just not necessarily optimal at all the same roles.
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I agree and disagree. You have a good point, but there’s things that existed in Classic that make no sense at all. Redoubt and Reckoning are pure examples of that.
Sure, Paladins don’t need to be redesigned. But there are things I would consider just flat-out broken.
Tier sets are broken and “On-Crit” talents are pretty weird.
Is it somehow game changing for Blizzard to fix those things? I don’t think so man.
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#1 (redoubt and reckoning moved to work on hit instead of crit) is a bug fix… you can’t reasonably expect to TANK while being the victim of criticals.
#2 Is a bug fix for prot, in that tanks need a taunt mechanic of some kind… For Ret, it merely addresses a major balance concern overall regarding Ret paladins and hypothetical viability, in that the moment they are fixed for all content before Naxxramas, they become overpowered in Naxxramas when they can add Exorcism to their damage rotation… It was simply poor design across the board.
3/4/5 where all fixed by tweaking itemization… If you’d prefer to not have multiple versions of the same gear for hybrids, then the only real alternatives are either adding new pieces of gear into the game, upping the droprates on choice non set gear, leaving the specs in question completely gimped and dealing with the major consequences of that, or putting all of the necessary stats on the same piece of gear. None of those are very good options, and the last one in particular would create defensive capped healadins and rets, which would have pvp implications.
I mean the guy who actually designed them came and out and said that their entire design was a total failure (and that was specifically regarding paladins)… Even ignoring that you are a self professed casual who doesn’t know or understand a damn thing about raiding, Pretending they where “fine” is just stupid, when even the guy who made the class argues against that.
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There are going to be PvP implications either way. That’s not a bad thing.
True, and I’ll be the first to admit that non healer paladins where more or less garbage in PvP, and could stand some improvements spilling over from fixing them in PvE… but giving every healadin a free tank level defensive cap, and a melee level strength to melee people with would absolutely break the game.
Yeah, but they could have just changed Redoubt, Reckoning or some other Talent to something that reduces the damage the Paladin takes from crits so that it’s only a little higher than Crushes and move on. It wouldn’t even have been a big deal.
And yeah, PvP wise, Rets weren’t that good admittedly. It was kind of gimmick imo.
I watched that video and unless I missed it, they did not specifically say that " future development (for balancing) is up for grabs depending on feedback from the community".
They specifically said that they “don’t have any plans to make any changes to any of the balance in 1.12”. They did also say that they “didn’t want to say that they wouldn’t listen to the community” ( “never say never”, in other words) , but they did not specifically say that “” future development (for balancing) is up for grabs depending on feedback from the community".
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