“Older” may not make them “better”, but if a given “QOL convenience” was never part of vanilla then it has no place in Classic, IMO. The same goes for any changes. If a given change did not take place during vanilla, then it has no place in Classic, IMO.
I mean of the list I had 7 of the 9 have absolutely nothing to do with vanilla in any shape or form… but your side is fine massively changing the game when it suites them and their demented little casual mindset. Adjust classes in an area that only impacts top end raiding (a place the vast majority of the people opposed to the idea don’t even go or experience) and suddenly they lose their mind screaming about big changes… Yeah… just no… you clowns don’t get it both ways.
The only two that are arguable are Xrealm BGs which was primarily released in anticipation of the TBC battleground and arena system… and who’s xrealm tech was fairly antithetical to the vanilla closed server experience.
And the modern version of AV, which was more or less present by 1.12 and is still available on the retail game… So quite easily you could argue that it makes much more sense to keep the older version of AV where it was already everything lame BfA warfronts wished they where.
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Umm no. The goal is classic. Not classic+.
Besides? Who decides If something from post classic is a good change? Given the track record I’m not going to trust things to a vote because a bunch of retailers will come in and body vanilla.
I don’t trust blizzard either. Or havd you not seen BFA?
Honestly they should tweak tanks such that you don’t NEED a prot warrior for anything serious in the game.
I’m willing to bet most of you here are in your mid 20s and above (ie have commitments now) and want the vanilla experience, but that will quickly turn sour when every free evening has you sitting in Ironforge for 3 hours a day, 4 nights a week because all the tanks are taken. Giving paladins and druids a taunt and a little more mitigation is not going to break the game.
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What list?
And i would love og mounts, pre 1.12 talents and threat, and og av
Well Old AV did not exist in 1.12 so it does not belong in classic either by your reasoning. They aren’t doing all of vanilla they are doing classic (1.12) Things removed in 1.3 or 1.6 are just as out of place as something that went in in 2.0
It would take more then tweaks for non warriors to effectively tank raids.
You’d need complete sets of gear per raid for paladins and druids, paladins need mana regen, and certain talents would have to be reworked.
That’s mote then tweaks.
Omg bamber, you clearly don’t understand what no changes means.
No changers are fine with anything that happened during vanilla. What we are against is post vanilla additions.
Was pre 1.12 av in vanilla? Yes. Then it’s up for debate.
10/15 man school and ubrs? Sure let’s talk.
Og unarmored mounts vs armored mounts? It happened during vanilla.
And yet every single thing I listed gets supported by self professed purists and casuals… Most of whom are staunchly against minor class adjustments for raid viability, despite their stances supporting the above (and significantly more impactful) changes.
You being a (moderately) reasonable exception to that stereotype, doesn’t change it.
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You choose to deliberately and willfully misrepresent what I said, but that is no surprise.
Things that were part of 1.3 or 1.6 WERE part of vanilla, while things that were part of 2.0 and beyond were never part of vanilla.
Whether or not old AV was part of 1.12 is irrelevant. The fact remains that the original AV WAS part of vanilla.
Did AV change during vanilla? Yes, it did.
The original AV was part of vanilla and so whether to use the original AV or the 1.12 version of AV is up for discussion.
Just as cross realm BG’s and battlemasters were not always part of vanilla and it would be in keeping with vanilla if BG’s were single realm and players had to travel to the entrance of the BG to queue.
Of course, those that favor convenience above all else will likely claim that not having the convenience of battlemasters and cross realm BG’s would be a change, despite the fact that they KNOW it would not in actuality be change.
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Negative they are not making all of vanilla they are making classic 1.12 Anything that did not exist in 1.12 is a change just as much. You can call them unchanges but they are still changes. Also Dire maul came out in 1.3…why would they wait until like the 1.8 content to release a 1.3 dungeon? If they are putting 3 patches in each of the 4 phases then dire maul very much does go in phase 1.
Most the things on that list I’m not happy about but resigned to accept.
I certainly don’t want loot trading but I see it makes blizzards job easier.
I’d be fine with spell batching as it happened.
Water graphics? Again not necc happy about but i am not fighting that losing battle.
Sharding I hate and you’ll see me railing against it if it’s in the game longer then 2 weeks.
I’d rather og av. It was friggen epic. And 0.5 and DM shouldn’t come out until wave 2 or 3.
They are using 1.12 as a base because it’s the most complete version of the game.
That doesn’t mean they can’t use stuff from before that.
I disagree with you there. Making Warrior tanks essential is a major concept in Vanilla and it make the Class system relevant.
Yes, they should make some changes.
No, they shouldn’t make that change, because it literally changes the entire dynamic of the game.
The changes they should make should involve making bad specs more niche and better at what they’re supposed to be good at. Make Hybrid classes better at simultaneous DPS+Healing+Tanking instead of only >one at a time< (I hate you Blizzard). There’s nothing wrong with being a subpar DPS if you can play a good support role.
The problem is that Hybrid classes DID NOT WORK AT ALL! THERE’S NO GEAR FOR IT! Holy god…
TBC actually made Feral relevant.
WotLK broke the Hybrid role ALL OVER AGAIN!
Good lord!..
Say what you want, Blizzard actually made Hybrid roles work for a really short while in late Classic and throughout BC.
But, making Warrior tanks non-essential is just… bad…
The threat mechanics of 1.12 WERE part of vanilla and as such do NOT constitute a change. They may not be what YOU want to see, but they WERE part of vanilla.
Blizzard never “reset” servers, so not resetting classic servers would NOT be a change. It may not be what YOU want to see, but it would NOT be a change.
Those desiring a truer classic experience are, by and large, against loot trading.
It’s funny that you mention “spell batching” since there has been more than one person who admits to having used spell batching to exploit and “backstab” from the front. Would that fall under the category of “exploit fix”? I don’t know. That does not mean that I support the “new spell batching”, though. Spell batching may simply be one of those things that we have to accept, like BNET integration, due to the new infrastructure.
I personally, favor the old graphics, including the old water. You will not see me supporting the new water graphics.
Just as with loot sharing, those desiring a truer classic experience, by and large are vehemently opposed to sharding.
The same goes for cross realm BG’s and AV. Most desiring a truer classic experience favor single realm BG’s and the original AV. Having said that, even if they preferred the new AV and cross realm BG’s both of those were also part of vanilla and would fall into that “not a change” category. You might not want to see cross realm BG’s or the new AV (and I do not either, BTW), but they WERE part of vanilla.
Amazing to me how some people still don’t understand what Classic is about. Even when Blizzard confirms 100% balance changes aren’t happening, people continue to ask for them.
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I don’t think some light balance changes would be a huge deal. Provided they stay within the realm of vanilla. Like apocs ideas by buffing the utility of given classes. I think another good way to fix ret a bit would be to swap repentance with kings. All paladin specs can then reach a nice cc if they want it and ret gets an exclusive blessing.
That said. I don’t think anything can make prot paladins or feral druids proper main tanks short of complete overhauls.
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You’re applying BfA design to Vanilla. The two don’t mesh.
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Buffing hybrids by utility is BFA design? Look im not saying a ret should be doing the damage of a rogue. I’m saying a ret should be doing enough damage/buffing of raid damage to warrant consideration.
If a rogue does 1k dps and a ret paladin does 600 dps but buffs others by a collective 400dps that makes me consider taking him.
And fyi at one point blessing of kings was a ret talent. Just saying.
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The OP is the best I have read in classic forums. The negativity to suggestions for change and the general rude behavior of certain posters you see time and again in threads (yeah they ste all here in this thread too) are a big turn off. I play and post to have fun but they create a cesspool of negativity. Makes me not even want to try the classic game.
Edit: to the OP, thank you for your service overseas, I appreciate it!!! Heart to you
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