Someone please give me a good reason

Jklockedout-proudmoore · November 25, 2018, 1:01am

Rokthar:

So, I understand why people want to play Pure classic and go through the timeline that original WoW went through. I was in open beta and played the game all the way until i joined the army right before TBC launched and had to quit seriously playing. I have seriously fond memories of the game in high school, playing with friends. I totally get people seeking nostalgia, however I DONT understand some of the overzealous attitudes a lot of folks have on here. When I see people ask if there could be minor talent tweaks or class balances these people really freak out. The only real conclusion i can come to is all of these people are from private servers, and dont actually care about playing a fun game (I.E. appreciation for the needed community in classic with no quality of life changes that isolate players), rather, they seem to just want to jump on the treadmill with all of their zeal of the private servers and THIS TIME GET IT RIGHT! Maybe they rolled a class that wasn’t viable for raiding their first time, or they have everything figured out (charts of BIS gear from 1-60, talent trees laid out, questing figured out). This seems to me to be an issue about knowing exactly how its going to go and want the meta-game the hell out of classic wow so they can stroke their huge E-peen (or e-vag, dont want to exclude the ladies). I can really not think of any logical reason you could be so opposed to any change, when we all god damn well know what made classic good, and what problems the later expansions kept perpetrating.

I remember playing TBC when i had a bit of free time between deployments and everyone was so thrilled, all of the classes seemed to have viable talent trees in all specs, no one was bummed out, no one was complaining, It wasnt class balancing that ruined WoW, it wasnt adjusting talents and giving everyone a fun gaming experience, it was the isolation, it was them streamlining the game to create an online action game that was easier to access than the great RPG WoW started as. I really want someone to change my mind on this, I dare you to actually change my mind and give me a solid logical argument against any kind of tweaks to make the game fun for everyone.

Dont bother posting anything like “no changes!” because thats exactly what Im railing against, get that reductionist garbage out of here.

Nobody trusts anybody to make the right changes. So better safe than ruined.

Dealloc-dethecus · November 25, 2018, 1:01am

You want a good reason?

How about “no changes” is Blizzard’s official stance on Classic. And this stance came from the vanilla community.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:02am

Rokthar:

Im not talking about TBC changes in classic, Im thinking its not so outrageous they perhaps know much more in retrospect, and would it be impossible to change a few talents deep in a few trees to make the overall spec more viable? TBC included more spells, abilities, and many more talents/levels, new features, etc.

You know, i dont know why its impossible to go through the entire life cycle of Classic, then at the end when TBC would have been released they instead release some new raids and dungeons, change up some talents, etc. I honestly would rather see Classic expanded on. I think what MMORPGs get wrong is they have something good going, then make drastic changes with expansions. Think of these games like a pen and paper. Lets say you and your friends have a D&D group going for two years, youre all decked out, so proud of your progress, then bam, next game your gear is irrelevant, your progress is largely irrelevant, none of that progression really mattered, youd be kinda annoyed, the DM just ruined the game for you. Id rather see them expand on the actual game after a certain amount of time, then just expand the game with TBC.

the answer is simple - it would take a complete overhaul, rather then small changes to make them actually work.

you’re not talking about classic vanilla wow at that point anymore. you’re more into the realm of classic +

Hypêrspace-dalaran · November 25, 2018, 1:02am

i made my first tank in tbc - a prot pally. she was awesome. i did the sporeggar faction grind for the spore shield, got an increase block chance and could aoe tank 10 mobs at once. hehe

pallies were wonderful in tbc but they kinda broke the game.

Valhalian-trollbane · November 25, 2018, 1:04am

People meta game every game they get to see the least bit before release. I remember in cata someone had hit max level in about 4 hours because they meta gamed its best to just “tag” mobs in the level 85 zone and have the rest of their guild kill the mob. The difference is there is 15 years of classic information out there. Its open to every person who wants to do research.

Also the number of people who want to do that is probably less then 10%. Alot of people will just go with their own flow.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:04am

and this is a good point - do you trust blizzard to make changes? the same blizzard that gave us BFA? the same blizzard that actually announced Diablo Immortal?

how about the pro balance changers? they can’t even agree though - you got some who want some minor changes to talents and abilities.
you got some who want them to be buffed moderately.
you got some who want a complete overhaul of classes.
you got some who want hybrids to actually be competitive with pures.
you got some who want more modern balance standards.

so who gets to decide how we balance the game?

Dibullba-burning-blade · November 25, 2018, 1:05am

Most likely because it would be easier for Blizzard to release TBC than it would to make new content for old content. It is like leveling in Classic where you balance in combat and out of combat. In Blizzards case it is where to spend the money and where to save the money. Releasing TBC sure would save a lot of money =P

Rokthar-medivh · November 25, 2018, 1:05am

I think we all know that eventually this game will be classic+, I doubt blizzard has the integrity anymore to actually just give us an absolutely unadulterated vanilla, exactly the same to a T. When they say absolutely no changes, we know theyre just saying that to calm the ravenous private server players.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:08am

do we though? why would we even need classic +?
think about it - the people who want changes, they have those. they have an entire game that has all the changes they want.
you know who doesn’t have the game they want? those no changers and private server players you refer too.

and yet, despite finally getting the game they want, we get a bunch of people from retail coming in here asking for changes to the game again. why? they have what they want. in blizzards own words they can go play BFA.

Rokthar-medivh · November 25, 2018, 1:11am

I think this also gets dangerous, A lot of people really just want vanilla, they dont even want the servers to progress. You could argue if they just progressed to TBC maybe a lot of players would unsub. Do you split the servers, do you have people transfer to TBC servers? then its just tons of people 60-70 and no lower players other than BE or Draenei, game would feel dead. I feel like eventually progressing to classic+ would be the safe bet for them to keep their subs.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:12am

or it could make them mad, depending on what changes were added and how they were gone about. at this point i don’t trust blizzard. if you want proof of why

Look at the mess that is BFA
Look at the promises with regards to sharding and RP servers.
Diablo Immortal

Hypêrspace-dalaran · November 25, 2018, 1:12am

i just ran a tbc timewalking arcatraz as holy priest, that was tough. no one cc’ed. the tank was a blood dk. people dont have to cc when the tank has a nice toolkit of aoe taunts. but poooor healer trying to keep tank alive with that much incoming damage.

/shakes head

the horror i tell ya.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:14am

Timewalking isn’t exactly the same thing though

Dibullba-burning-blade · November 25, 2018, 1:15am

You are not wrong in terms of active players and not so much the sub count. The thing that will be good though is that the official servers would continue to exist. People would likely jump ship to play TBC and then when they feel they have there fill of whatever Classic expansion is present. They can always go to the one they enjoy without worrying that the experience would be ruined.

Rokthar-medivh · November 25, 2018, 1:15am

Again, i think saying NO CHANGES because BFA exists is a poor argument. BFA is a completely different game. Let me tell you, since i heard about classic WoW I came back to these forums after easily 8-10 years, I play OW and thought to myself “itll be fun maybe to play some WoW just to get the mood going for classic” Holy crap, its not even an RPG, its just a really terrible interactive cartoon. There was 0 sense of danger, its like telling me I shouldnt want to change the way we play our D&D 3.5 campaign because theres a D&D interactive app on my phone.

Hypêrspace-dalaran · November 25, 2018, 1:17am

it felt legit tbc to me. mechanics people ignored to my horror. rushing into a room with stealthed mobs that mind control and hit like trucks. mobs that periodically heal themselves if you hit them while they are shielded, regenerating to full hp over and over cause people would keep hitting them.

what a FIASCO. at least in the real tbc, people you grouped with basically knew what to d…well maybe not hehe

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:18am

i can tell you that there is people on these very forums now who have actually said they would be happy with classic being basically built like BFA but set to level 60. we have had others who have said they wish balance was like BFA.

so yes, excuse me for being very anti changes when people have literally proven given the chance would change it into a mockery of vanilla wow.

but lets go hypothetical here rokthar.

if a rogue does 1k dps top end, how much dps should a hybrid in equivalent gear with equivalent buffs do?

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · November 25, 2018, 1:18am

it was definitely a wake up call for some people but it defintely wasn’t up to BC levels.

Hornyswoggle-khazgoroth · November 25, 2018, 1:22am

One change brings on many changes. First you balance classes then whats next? You ll be going down a slippery slope. We finally have it, we have Classic being released just accept the good times ahead.

Mogar-stormrage · November 25, 2018, 1:23am

I don’t know what to tell you, OP. Classic is an exact recreation of the Vanilla experience. It’s not up to us to defend what Blizzard has already dictated. I guess you just need to accept it for what it is.