– Crossposting from EU forums, as asked by original author –
Demonology warlock is a key component of most Wrath raids groups, mostly due to Demonic Pact . Through this talent, Demonology supports not only casters but also healers with his spellpower and have guaranteed spot in most runs, especially 25 mans. I personally think Wrath Demonology is super fun to play, one of the best specs and rotations ever designed and I would like to believe I am by far not the only one thinking that but that is subjective of course.
Sadly current mechanics of Demonic Pact pushes people to play Demonology in a way that is extremely obnoxious and goes against the overall design of the spec and is generally super un-fun to most of the people.
Mechanics I am talking about here are snapshotting, 20 seconds inner-cooldown of the DP buff and the fact that stronger buff can be overriten by weaker buff. The result of these mechanics is that Demo locks will be expected (especially in competitive environment) to recall their pets to prevent them from attacking to either not override DP buff that was snapshotted at the moment of Spell Power procs or to wait for next proc(s) to not trigger that ICD so you can get stronger DP again.
This would result in Demonology warlock, spec that have nearly the whole tree directly or indirectly buff your pet to have your Felguard stand next to you, doing nothing (NOT attacking) more than 50% of the time. I believe this goes directly against what Demonology was designed to do and was not really intended.
Also as mentioned - in general, this type of gameplay is widely considered as the exact opposite of engaging and fun and makes people reconsider playing Demonology (feedback based on Warlock Classic Discord, my guild etc.). Who would like to have pet focused talent tree without using their pet most of the time? And of course personal DPS is being crippled by this as well.
There is already issue raised together with Classic Warlock Discord community that also contains possible solution(s) to the problem - https://github.com/Zephancode/wotlk-warlock/issues/28 . Please note this is the only [SomeChanges] topic suggested from warlock Discord.
I believe this is change worth doing in Classic and would be widely seen as huge quality of life improvement and would be highly appreciated.
32 Likes
Current way it works has me second guessing being my guilds demo lock and just going affliction, Would love if something get’s done to fix it.
4 Likes
Same. I love Wrath’s demo playstyle, but the fact that to play optimally I’ll have to pull my pet back, which is literally one of the core things of the Demo tree, is very disheartening.
2 Likes
It should be a minor but welcome change to allow players to toggle the ability to proc demonic pact on and off for their pet. This would allow skilled players to snapshot buffs to boost their raid optimally while still allowing them to deal damage with the pet. This change is the most similar to the original imo, while allowing full pet damage.
For the current design, it will likely always be optimal to have a pet focused class not use their pet for over half the fight, which is just wrong
2 Likes
Cannot support this enough. When they destroyed demonology as a spec in Legion, I stopped playing retail. I have always loved Demo. The #1 thing I was looking forward to in WotLK was getting to play Demo again. But, if it means having to be AFK half the time to play the spec, then I don’t know how much of WotLK I will even play or how long I will stay subbed.
It needs to be clarified that the issue is more than the pet having 50% downtime. You as the player will have massive downtime as well. To optimize the buff for the raid, you will need to get any procs (Lightweave Embroidery, trinket procs, etc.) and pop CDs (on-use trinket, etc.) and then get your pet to run in and proc the buff. You get to have a window to pump, but then you as the player will also have to go AFK to not proc anything with an ICD until the 45 seconds is about to run out to re-up Dark Pact.
This really can’t be allowed to go live the way it is. If there are already effects in the game that will not allow a weaker version to be applied, why shouldn’t this same rule be applied to Dark Pact? It clearly fits within Approachable and Familiar - the game isn’t approachable if you have to be spending half the fight telling your pet to not attack or standing still not casting spells.
6 Likes
In the TBC beta, Feral Druids were able to use Trollsblood Elixirs every time they powershift in order to increase the maximum dps potential of the class, and the energy system was re-worked in order to prevent such degenerate gameplay. The result was a loss in dps potential in exchange for a much more smooth and accessible play-style.
It would be completely reasonable to treat this Demonology issue similarly and implement a fix that sacrifices some top-end potential dps (for the raid this time) in favor of eliminating degenerate gameplay and smoothing out the play-style.
Making the buff dynamically update with the warlock’s spellpower would remove the need to hold the pet back waiting for everything to line up, though it would no longer extend the effectiveness of short procs.
Meanwhile, keeping the 45s duration and 20s cooldown retains the skill needed to maximize the buff uptime in situations where the pet might die or where you might need to switch targets because the current one has died. It could even be worthwhile to reduce the duration of the buff in order to further incentivize maximizing the time the pet is doing damage.
6 Likes
Can definitely relate. As an officer in my current guild that’s been asked to be the demo lock in Wrath, I am not looking forward to this sort of min/max playstyle that will be expected from any guild that is looking to progress content. Seems to me this could could be fixed in a manner similar to other buffs where a weaker version cannot override what’s currently active. Hoping for a change to this, we’ll see.
2 Likes
This is a pretty good idea, actually. Making the ICD and duration to be close together, like 40/45 or 20/25. That alone would make it so that the pet would stay at least 95% on the boss, you’d at most pull it back for like 5 seconds, and even then that would risk a downtime on the buff.
Really like this idea.
3 Likes
Please change this so I can actually play my spec instead of being forced to play unfun mechanics that don’t really make sense.
Please fix this blizzard. This would kill the joy of playing demonology for a lot of people
Seems like a sensible change. If putting my pet on passive to maintain a tiny spell power buff becomes required due to social pressure…I won’t play demo.
4 Likes
Was very excited to play demo after all the hype - but then I found out about unfortunate playstyle where we purposefully AFK our pet.
Please change DP blizz, thank you
3 Likes
It’s not even a tiny buff. If you line everything up, the difference could be more than an extra flask on the entire raid for 45s
1 Like
Would love to see it fixed.
2 Likes
It isn’t tiny. The difference between full proc/CD buff and regular buff can get well in excess of 150 spell power difference. Look at testing from beta on size of buffs possible. 150 spell power for 25 people, even only 15 of them are caster DPS/healers, is worth way more than your personal DPS.
1 Like
I would appreciate a version of Demonic Pact as described, where “weaker” buffs cannot overwrite stronger buffs. I would like to actually use my pet to dps instead of afk at my side so this change is welcome.
I would prefer it stays as is.
At the end of the day demonology is a support class as well - and support roles have to make the decision to sacrifice their own personal DPS for the better of the raid.
In practice you really aren’t pulling your pet back all that much - aside from the opener where your procs are generally going to line up. In raid scenarios there are a LOT of times where your trinket procs just dont line up correctly or your pet just doesnt crit and proc it for a while. The number being thrown around saying “50% downtime” is a bit exaggerated. There may be a lot of points where you aren’t relying on huge proc trinkets as well (maybe you end up running illustration of the dragon soul and embrace of the spider or eye of the broodmother) - in that scenario there would be very little situations where you end up pulling your pet back at all.
Currently as it is it’s also kind of a fun minigame to play if you are playing around procs to min max the buff for the raid and i find a lot of enjoyment in it - trying to snapshot the best buff for the raid as much as possible (a bit of a self sacrificing sort of for the boys mentality) - but others may not enjoy it and thats okay.
I think if anything we wait until raid testing comes out to let people actually play the style before counting it out. Most the complaints are from players who havent played it recently/in a raid scenario much recently.
1 Like
going mage if it doesn’t get fixed. cbf to play affli and rely on externals to prop me up.
2 Likes
Conveniently, most trinkets have a 45s internal cooldown, so every demonic pact you would want to bring the pet back for 25s and wait for your next proc. Assuming 2 trinkets can proc together, you would want to always wear 2 45s CD spellpower proc trinkets, which gets a bit messy later in the expansion