Meanwhile they fixed it in TBC because no one wants to pray to god their pot CD is up and drink every 2 seconds with butt clenching your mana the entire run.
Name suits ya. And again I say, fix Rduid yee yee.
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Yep, which will insure itâs failure.
why would that be the case?
exactly, we know when classes went good to great, and great to horrible. Just stop when they homogenize the roles to the point you canât tell who is who, thatâs Cata? or was that even in Wrath?
I think you are making a very basic oversight in logic in your post.
Why does every spec have to be viable for raiding?
Raiding is not the only thing you do in WOW. Some specs may be better for PVP, farming, etc. They donât all have to be viable for raiding, or perform equally for raiding. The reason you have different specs is because ONE (or maybe a couple) of them is supposed to be used for raiding.
The class identity in classic is STRONG for a reason. Every class shouldnât be a dps, or a tank, or the best healer.
Homogenizing classes is what led to the current state of retail that most people who play classic donât want in classic.
It is GOOD to have strong class identity. It isnât a bad thing.
If you want to DPS, play a strong DPS class. If you want to heal, play a strong healer class. Hybrids SHOULD be punished. The versatility should come at a cost, so that you are good at at least 1 spec, OK at others, and not so great for the rest. That is the price for being able to do multiple roles.
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because the original developers said they wished they had cleaned them up in classic, not TBC.
no but raiding is the main thing to do in wow especially with 12 month shelf life.
donât be naive. you mean to tell us that ret is just for leveling and holy is for raiding?
wrong, this is not homogenizing classes, no one is asking for that so donât inject it and lie in an attempt to make a better argument.
you honestly donât know the gap between memes and average dps, or memes and top dps do you. (hint, raid logs are still available if you wanted to know)
wrong. there is nothing versatile about hybrids. for example, 1 shadow priest is actually a DPS loss when you could just stack another mage or warlock. Same with boomkin, because their damage is so low the crit aura added to other classes doesnât offset their garbage damage.
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Iâm sure the class designer of WOW would disagree with you. In fact I know he would because he streams on Twitch and has talked about this many times.
He likes having distinct classes. He is responsible for the classes in Classic. There is supposed to by a hybrid tax. It wasnât a mistake. He did it on purpose, and said so.
You have no idea how to design a successful game. So maybe you should leave game design choices to people who know what they are doing.
I think the original designer of Vanilla WOW knows a lot more about game design than you based on the sheer success of this game. So I will defer to him on these topics and not the opinion of some person who obviously wants to make Classic into retail all over again.
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Class identity - the paladin, a holy knight that wear a blue dress and doesnt actually use his weapons at all.
Hybrids are punished to the point that they can only heal, apart from warriors, who are both top tier tanks and dps. There is 0 hybrid tax for the warrior at all.
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The warrior isnât a hybrid class. What are you smoking? They were meant to be tanks/dps. The name WARRIOR kinda implies this. They are on the front lines, taking the beatings, and dealing their own beatings back out to enemies.
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A hybrid class is a class that can fill multiple roles. How is a warrior not a hybrid class? Do you know what a hybrid is?
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Yeah I do understand what a hybrid spec is unlike you obviously. No one has ever argued warriors should only tank or only dps. No sane person anyway.
Also, people have a warped view of VIABILITY in this game. Druids can DPS in two different forms just fine. They can tank pretty well. They can also heal, but arenât the best.
Paladins can heal and offtank. They donât need to be maintanks to be viable. That is part of the hybrid tax. They are a support class like druid. They can also dps, although this is their weakest spec. But you can still use it in raid and many have done in classic, and have cleared content.
I do believe an entire 40 man paladin raid has cleared a lot of raids in classic. A 40 man druid raid also has.
Viable =/= best. It means you can do something reasonably well that the raid will succeed. Of course stacking paladins or druids is not what you want to do.
But you can have a few of them in your raid and clear every raid in classic just fine.
So I donât see the point of making drastic class changes to make hybrids super powerful. TBC went to far. Druids are like super good at everything, and paladins are super OP at tanking and very good at healing.
True hybrids, like the paladin and druid, should not be the best, or even close to the best at anything. The convenience of being a hybrid class should cost you something.
Warriors are designed to tank and DPS. If any changes should be done, it is nerfing warriors in DPS because they are just so much better than everything else, largely due to unintended mechanics, like heroic strike queueing, and flask sets.
You understand what a hybrid is but you donât think warriors are a hybrid? You are delusional. The only reason you donât think they are a hybrid is because they top the dps charts and are also hands down the best tanks. Iâm almost positive warriors were intended to be mediocre dps and the top tanks.
The way you describe viability is irrelevant when you can not get into a raid as a meme spec outside of a few outliers. Most of the guilds i raided with didnât take any meme specs, some of them took 1 at the most.
You can have many of them youâre right, but regardless of that noone is going to take them because they are so weak that youâre just carrying them. That is why people want them to be buffed so they can contribute and not be either forced to heal, or not raid.
Shamans are designed to be dps and heal - they can only heal.
druids are designed to dps, heals and tank - they can mostly only heal.
paladins are designed to dps, heal and tank - they can only heal.
priests are designed to dps and heal - they can only heal.
warriors are designed to dps and tank - THEY TOP DPS AND TOP TANKING.
Warriors are a hybrid, they are designed to be able to fill multiple roles just like the other classes i listed, but unlike them they have 0 hybrid tax. Yeah, you could nerf warrior dps, but then youâre making class changes anyway so why not just buff the memes so they can have a chance at playing?
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Also not one single person has said to buff hybrids to make them super powerful. Everyone who has asked for changes has asked for minor tweaks. I am done arguing with you, itâs like arguing with a brick wall, only with less brains and no ears.
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Yeah, warriors should be tanks first but also DPS. They have swords and stuff. It would be dumb to make them just a tank. The name WARRIOR also implies they DPS.
They are not a true hybrid class like a paladin or druid.
You are being intentional argumentative because you are bored or something.
Warrior DPS shouldnât be as high as it is. That is the only change Iâm willing to concede.
And if you didnât hear, Blizzard is nerfing flask set. So they obviously agree with me. 
I wouldnât be surprised if they address heroic strike queuing as well. Since it is obviously not intended.
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Not when it comes to classes They have literally Removed the debuff limit that is literally going to change absolutely nothing.
Warriors and Rogues are still going to be at the top Is maybe warlocks will do a little bit better
Is removing the debuffalo military changes absolutely nothis is absolutely nothing when it comes to classes like nothing.
I hate to be the one that breaks this to you but youâre not the only 1 whoâs played the game a long time Iâve been playing this game since 2004.
You donât know everything in your opinion isnât 100% right I havenât made a secret Is that I think wrath classes.
Should be the way they go however Iâm gonna alter this a little bit just because everyoneâs calling me a wath fanboy apparently Iâm only saying wrath classes because I want them.
Because the truth is there is 2 One would be wrath classes with 60 talent points The 2nd would be cata classes
And I want to go on record insane I absolutely Despise cata classes Is however itâs still better than classic.
class balance is not nearly as good And rogues and Warriors are literally broken Through most of it.
Although I do find it humorous that the strongest dps Was arms Warriors
That was funny to find out So I guess what I should say is Wrath or cata Oh and why cata Fun fact At level 85 we had 51 talent points.
And there are so many people that would disagree with you on that Nobody likes the hybrid tax especially.
Including myself As far as tbc Going too far can I remind you Paladins are literally the weakest Healers
They are your tank healer That is their job they are not raid healers And as far as tanks theyâre good.
There are kings and dungeons yes but for raids your maintenance are still your Warriors and your druids at least to later on.
Is there a solid DPS Thatâs fine Drew its are strong healers but they also donât have a Res
At least not when they canât use consistently If anything Priests are technically stronger than druids are if you want to go that comparison.
I mean letâs be honest Boomies are good I mean OK but Youâre bringing them for that 3% crit buff.
You want my absolute opinion this is what I think they should do either one Ralph talents and spells or cata Talents and spells.
Because fun fact cata Would actually slot in better because at level 85 we had 51 talent points.
Now do I like cata no In fact I absolutely despise it but if it fits better it fits better.
I donât think anyone advocating for class balancing wants these bottom tiers to be the best. I think we just want them to be mid tier. I would say somewhere around feral? So if a tier list looked like: War>Rog>Mage>Lock>Hunt>Feral>SP>Ret>Enh>Balance>Ele then me and a lot of people just want to see anything below Feral/Hunter be equal or slightly below feral/hunter but instead Feral/Hunter do almost double what these lower tier classes can do and then warriors do double what hunter/feral can. Youâre argument that thereâs a hybrid tax also makes no sense or else feral druids wouldnât do more dps than Hunters btw. The dps variance between specs is just way too big and I personally donât want to see a shuffling in the tier list but I do want the gap to close more.
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Just because theyâre changing the way one item work doesnât mean that they agree with you
Theyâre not nursing Warrior dps Which again This is fine if anything the other lower performers should be buffed.
You know so everybody can have fun playing each Because if you really want to go into it it makes no sense that His paladins are better healers than tanks.
I mean if you really want to go by story The more famous paladins are way more known as tanks or DPS than the ever are as healers.
You never heard About uthur healing tering He was a straight up ret terrelion perot So if anything it would make more sense for ret and pot Is to be better than holy.
If weâre going to go by a story/lore explanation There is nothing wrong with the hybrid class being able to make use of all 3 of their specs.
Iâm not saying they should be number one But The DPS difference should not be Is 25% or more
This is why I keep saying Give us cata or wath Spells and talents
Me personally I just want to see every single speck Not top But people donât go oh I donât want to play that because if i play that class i know i have to do this.
Or I have to play a 100 times harder than everybody else and get less Result Thatâs a lousy feeling.
Again this is why I cata or wath Talents and spells.
homie this is classic, youâre delusional if you think theyâre gonna give spells from a different expansion. They might tweak numbers but they wonât be adding anything new
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