SoM = Same ol' Mess | #BuffMemes

SoM updates were awesome, but next round of updates needs to address that there are more meme specs than viable specs.

  • Top Tank: Warrior
  • Top Off-Tank: Warrior & Feral (Bear)
  • Top DPS: Warrior, Rogue, Mage
  • Top Healers: Paladin, Priest (dwarf), Shaman (horde only)
  • Top Hybrid: Fury-Prot not druid.

Meme Specs

  • Balance Druid
  • Feral (cat)
  • BM Hunter
  • Arcane Mage
  • Prot Paladin
  • Ret Paladin
  • Shadow Priest
  • Smite Priest
  • Ele Shaman
  • Enh Shaman
  • Demo Lock

9 classes in Vanilla, totaling 31 specs (included smite, shaman tanks, and fury prot as distinct spec/role), yet out of the 31 flavors available, only 10 are deemed viable by the player base because the other 21 woefully under-performing by a huge margin.


  • Balance
  • Feral (cat)
  • Feral (bear)
  • Resto

2 meme specs: Balance & Cat


  • Beast Mastery
  • Marksmanship
  • Survival

Pet’s die too easily in raids so BM is out, and survival only shines in phase 6, so that’s 1 viable raid spec out of 3 trees.


  • Arcane
  • Fire
  • Frost

Frost until fire takes over, but 2 out of 3 is pretty good.


  • Holy
  • Protection
  • Retribution

Paladin needs a taunt so prot will be on par with warrior, and ret could off-tank like a warrior if need be. Ret’s damage is too low, and has mana issues.


  • Discipline (healer)
  • Holy (healer)
  • Shadow
  • Disc (smite)

Shadow and Smite need a buff to not go OOM. (Smite was the 1st spell a priest ever uses, has 7 talents to exclusively buff the smite/holy damage so don’t tell me Smite can’t get a buff as DPS. And I’ve seen Smite out perform Shadow, but both are still 1/2 the damage of other casters)


  • Assassination
  • Combat
  • Subtlety

Combat is king, but Sub might be viable with debuff cap removed.


  • Elemental
  • Enhancement
  • Restoration

Ele and Enhance are considered meme specs (w/o world buffs you have no Holderkek bonky boi.) Both Ele and Enh need better MP5, and would love to see Enhancement get Taunt.


  • Affliction
  • Demonology
  • Destruction

Might change with SoM debuff cap changes, but typically 1 spec of lock.


  • Arms
  • Fury
  • Protection
  • Fury Prot

Blows my mind that Fury-Prot is totally fine as a thing, but any suggestion for Prot paladin tanking, or Shaman tanking is absolutely unreasonable. lol I hope that Blizzard was able to an end to Fury-Prot tanking with SoM’s current changes to boss HP/Mechanics.


There are a dozen changes that are non-invasive, and don’t require massive reworking to make meme specs perform with the rest of the pack.


Yes please! The current meta has been around over a decade now and inhibits on the fun of any dps raider who doesn’t wish to roll a mage, warrior or rogue. Being a fresh server why not have the ability to play some fresh specs? The changes so far are all great but I feel like the excitement of them all diminishes a bit when you realise you are pigeon holed to play the. Game exactly the same way regardless of these new changes.


you class balancers should realize you lost. you’re like the world buff people at this point. accept defeat and move on. there’s nothing wrong with vanilla class design; it is not written in stone that every spec must be viable for PvE raiding. some specs are better than others. hell, some classes are better than others. are warriors a little OP? sure, I’ll say so. but it’s all part of the charm of vanilla. from a lore perspective, it kinda makes sense for warriors to be the main core of your raid anyway. if you want a game where every spec of every class is viable, they made retail just for you.


You know, I agree, but also with a seasonal gameplay there’s no real reason not to shake it up. I don’t think we need this on the first season, but maybe the second? If it doesn’t pan out, switch it up. Have some fun with it.

The idea of a game with a new meta to discover is appealing to me. If you want the same old thing, CE/TBC have you covered.


Retail has you covered, tbh. Always changing, new content often


disagree. I’ll call it quits and a failure once they point blank state no adjustments, or they launch with 0 class changes, until then it is fair game.

Exactly, I thoroughly enjoyed Classic for the past 2 years, and ready for meme specs have average dps rather than 1/3 of what a warrior can do.

Retail sucks, and vanilla wasn’t awesome because of the disparity between top dps, and meme specs.

The DPS of meme specs is in the low hundreds while warrior/rogue can push 700+ dps without world buffs, and a meme spec couldn’t hit that with full world buffs.


This is what #somechanges gets you

Every single loony toon on the forums feels empowered to post their thread asking for #evenmorechanges

Vanilla was a brilliant game because of its blemishes. When you fools are done, nobody will recognize it any longer.


That’s fine. It will not be changing


vanilla is not supposed to be a theme park game raiding simulator

classes aren’t balanced in PvP or any other activity either. raiding is not the be-all end-all of the game that everything is designed around. in fact, Molten Core was thrown in to vanilla WoW at the last possible stage before it launched. it doesn’t, and shouldn’t, have the same elevated status in classic that it has in retail.

vanilla WoW was before the entire WoW community and development team got hijacked by the sub community of raiders. later expansions were designed for raiders first, everybody else second, but not vanilla.

furthermore, raid encounters in vanilla are not difficult. there are very few mechanics to speak of. any of the so called “meme” specs are perfectly capable of clearing every single raid in the game, and have already done so many times. if your guild won’t bring you on your preferred spec, find a new guild or start your own.


then it won’t matter or affect you if they do it around 500 dps rather than 200-300 dps. (warrior/rogues without wbuffs do 600-700 dps easy)


What do you honestly think would happen to PvP, if you buffed Subtlety Rogue dps to make that more of a thing in raids?

The problem you are having is that you are trying to apply a raiding centric, retail mindset, to Vanilla which was never designed to be a raids-above-all-else game.

It is very obvious that you do not understand this subject and haven’t thought this through, at all. It would be a disaster if Blizzard listened to you and the other imbeciles asking for this crap. And as utterly stupid as they can be, mercifully they are probably not that stupid.


rogue is already BiS, sub might be decent just because Hemo will be up on new SoM style.

and in other another thread i already stated spirit = hit, and new MP5 formula for spirit for specific meme specs would make them better in PVP with out any drastic changes.

Tier 1 gear has roughly 100-120 spirit for paladin, druid, shaman, priest… put that spirit to work and roughly 5% hit.

Yes go ahead and buff my ele spec further, I was already one hitting non flasked r14 warriors.


Rogue is just an example, it could be any spec. Ret paladin, spriest, balance, any other spec.

All of this affects PvP, significantly. Spell hit matters quite a bit in PvP. Mana regen matters quite a bit in PvP.

All of this is beside the point because these specs were not designed to be equal in a raid environment. The game was not designed with the mindset that every spec must be desired in every in game activity. The game was not designed with the mindset that raiding is the only activity that matters and all specs will be designed and balanced around a raid setting only.

Raiding is 1% of the game. Designing all classes around that 1% first, and the other 99% of the game as a complete afterthought, is perhaps the single largest mistake that the retail developers ever made. Let’s not repeat it here.


With all these changes, I guess you won’t be playing SoM. But you seem like an insufferable douchenozzle so nothing of value will be lost.


Nobody good is playing


Nobody had to be good the last time around either, what’s your point?

Just accept that the seasons are going to be some weird version of OSRS and Diablo. I guess I’d rather have some weird experimental stuff than raid logging in TBC though.


I’ll agree there, tbc is trash


Maybe if my extremely casual RL friends want to play it, I’ll level with them for as far as they make it (probably not past 40). But I will complain about the accelerated leveling the entire way.

I will not participate in end game. Increasing boss HP and trash HP will not make raids harder, it will just make them take longer. Removing WBs will not make anything interesting or challenging, it will just make it take longer. I’ve already spent more than enough time in Molten Core.

As for PvP I’ll happily continue playing TBC.

A classier way to admit that you’ve lost this argument, and that your viewpoint was completely mistaken, would be to just admit it.

Vanilla wasn’t designed with raiding as the center of the universe. Vanilla’s classes aren’t designed around raiding first and everything else an afterthought. Deal with it.


yup, dealing with it by suggesting changes because SoM is raiding-centric.

You really think that 5% extra hit will free up enough gear slots for pure damage that a meme spec can global people like warriors and mages already do? you’re daft or a liar, pick one.