there are reason to push themselves. They just refuse to do it. Plain and simple. Doesn’t matter what kind of carrot blizz put infront of you. Unless you get that shiny mythic gear for leading turtles in the water or do flappy birds you wont be contented.
There is plenty of reasons for them to push themselves in the game already.
Joining groups is not that scary.
I do not believe anyone who WOULD play the game seriously, is not because of being incapable of joining a group in this game.
Like, I legitimately believe ZERO players would be in that boat, with how easy they have made entry level PVE.
I’m sure that’s not true, but I still struggle to see it with how many people I have helped get through the leap from completely incapable to KSM.
You’re right - you did misunderstand my point. My point isn’t that ‘making gold is bad’, but rather that making gold does not fill the role of solo progression.
Farming for leather shouldn’t change. World mobs shouldn’t change.
But something should be added to allow solo players the opportunity to feel progression. Whether it be reworking torghast, adding scenarios that are tuned for 1-3 people to experience a progression experience, the ability to accept special ‘high difficulty’ world quests that raise the general threat level of the world but give better rewards, or something else.
Please don’t take my intent as to hurt leather farming. Or to say that gold is a bad thing. Or that gold based progression like BoEs shouldn’t exist.
Just that comparing BoEs to the type of progression experience I’m hoping for isn’t really a fair comparison.
Congratulations for actingl ike people who approach this type of game differently from you don’t exist, I guess? Not sure why you’d volunteer this type of info.
“I am not like this, and because surely I am the ideal to which all humans should aspire, everyone must be like me. Right? Surely nobody out there could be different from me”
That’s not at all what I want. That’s literally the opposite of what I want and in fact if Blizzard proposed that I would be vehemently opposed to it.
I want Blizzard to add content to the game that gives solo players a similar progression cycle to everyone else. The same path. “Do content, get gear which enables completion of more difficult content to get better gear” - just with solo or 2-3 people parties instead of 5 or 20 man parties.
Not sure how else to express that one.
3 Likes
By and large this expansion has been tailored to satisfy the needs of raiders and mythic +ers. There’s no new BGs or innovations for PvP (ie. single duels) - there’s little world to explore for the solo adventurer type - and not much to do outside of raiding or mythic + once you reach max level which happens pretty fast. If they were resource limited in development - most of it went to your raids and mythic + dungeons. The rest of the crumbs were thrown out to the masses and it’s pretty rich that you now deign to say we should have no voice in the matter, or our voice doesn’t matter. I can assure you, it does matter. You watch and see what happens or just look around now, see what’s happening outside of your rose-coloured bubble.
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So you want 2 - 3 party. Here’s rated pvp w/ 2 or 3 player queue. There’s your 2 to 3 party. You want solo here’s pugging and farming gold to buy boe.
Both example are called progression. Just the 2 are different on how you get the loot. But you still get loot at the end of the grind.
I swear you people complain just for the sense of complaining
I swear you like complaining about people posting feedback just for the sake of complaining.
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Nope just pointing out the flaw of what you want. Let’s be honest here. What you want isn’t a way to acquire gear by doing hard stuff but a way to get gear w/ ZERO effort and call it progression
No they don’t. Progression involves gearing up to tackle more and more difficult content. Not getting your 197 armor and grinding WQs for anima.
No. That’s what Buying BoEs would be. If I just wanted gear without effort I’d buy tokens, sell them, and get BoEs. It’d be easy. I can afford it. That’s no issue at all.
Let me explain this one more time: I want content that I can experience that will challenge me at my own pace in a solo or small group environment, that will then reward me with additional gear so that I can push to the next tier of difficulty within that content.
“Farming gold for BoEs” doesn’t give that progression. It’s just gear handouts on a delay. I don’t WANT handouts on a delay. I want difficult pve content that can push me to be my best and then reward me with gear.
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This is all well and good, but we already have this.
It just caps out.
A solo progression is ALWAYS going to cap out, and not be as good as high end group content.
Consider the old badge and token systems. While these required group content to gain currency (i.e. the daily heroic), it was essentially solo progression. They could have made some other mechanism for gaining currency.
But in the end, what you ended up with was essentially starting gear for raiding, because that’s the other reason we had these systems. To level players up for end game content.
For world content, the gear was high powered. Badge geared players were crushing last tier raids.
But they were still not in equity with current end game players. They were always behind the curve.
Consider BC. My “progression” was doing daily cooldowns and farming mats (lots and lots of mats) to build the Frozen Shadoweave set. I’d also do dailies, but as a mostly solo player, my singular path of advancement was crafting the tailoring DPS set.
This took months.
And I wasn’t as strong and Karazhan players, but that’s as far as I was able to go.
Why could I not go farther? Why is the end game content always rewarding the best gear? Why can’t it be earned in different ways?
Simple reason? Why do people play the game? They play to get gear. They play the highest level content that’s compatible with their lifestyle, schedule, and personality to get the best gear they can get.
When players can no longer get gear, that is when a player can no longer advance, they quit. They either leave the game, or they go off and work on an alt.
Sure, there’s always the minority of collectors and such running old content to get drops and whatever. But for most players, once they’re geared up, they stop.
The other truth is that players will spend the LEAST amount of time they can to gear up. Very few will take a longer road if there’s a short one available. Because the goal is gear.
Consider PvP right now. Why do players play PvP? Because they like PvP? No, because it’s one of the most efficient ways to get gear. PvP is filled with folks that “don’t PvP”. They didn’t play before, they won’t play next time for PvPs sake. It’s simply the fastest mechanism available to gear up their toons.
Notice how the PvP honor system runs in parallel with the Covenant gear system. You can’t efficiently run both, you can’t upgrade PvP gear with Covenant resources. You pretty much have to commit to one path over the other. If you want a better piece than the 184 you got from PvP, you have a lot of catching up to do in PvE.
Why is that?
Because if the systems supported each other, then you’d have folks doing both: PvE and PvP in order to gear faster. Not all folks, but definitely a segment of folks would absolutely do both. For hours a day.
M+ and raiding are on parallel paths. That’s why you can only pick one item from the Vault. If you could M+ and Raid and PvP, “everyone” would be doing that.
So, if there were a solo path to the top, instead of group content, it has to be either significantly slower (otherwise “no one” would do group content), or considerably weaker.
We get “considerably weaker” so that solo players doing world content get powered up “enough” to not get clobbered by a wandering elite on a road, or a face pull and assassin in the Maw.
iLevel 200, which is readily achieved through easy PvP or easy Covenant gear, is more than adequate for world content. You’re empowered, you know no fear, you dominate your environment. Something everyone wants to do.
If you want to feel particularly frustrated, imagine a solo leveling path that finishes 2 weeks before the next tier drop. Sure, it’s powerful, but it takes a looonngg time.
And when you finally get it, reach the top, you’re getting ready to watch it whither away as a new tier comes out and you see you have another 4 months, or whatever, of work to do it all over again.
Some may not find that very satisfying. Others will complain about how “much work” it is to get to the same point on alts.
So, again, solo is capped. It’s widely accessible, anyone can do it, it’s not spectacularly difficult. Which is fine for a lot of the playerbase. Which is fine for alts.
In conclusion: there are always only one path to power. There may be the illusion of several paths, but there’s not. There’s the fast path, and the others that nobody plays. Even if we had a solo path to equity, it would likely take far too long to in the end be actually satisfying (since the solo path will never be The Fast path).
Instead we have a fast solo path to being very comfortable in world content.
So raids are now solo content?
There’s no reason why it has to. For a long time people felt the same way about raiding vs dungeons. “Dungeons have to cap out on gear because they’re smaller group content”. But then they made small group content that offered the same gear. And it was GREAT.
There’s no reason they can’t do it again for a smaller team. Offer me a small group/solo end-game experience.
And progression stops for all forms, solo, pvp, raiding, M+, at its highest difficulty level.
Solo content being braindead easy obviously stops its progression at a lower threshold.
Thus, all is right in the world.
Of Warcraft
And this right here is what people, myself included, want to change. Stop making all solo content braindead easy. Make some solo(or small group) path that becomes more difficult, and as a result, awards better gear.
There is currently no form of solo progression. With group content, you get gear so you can do higher m+ or raid tiers. There’s no difficulty progression path for solo players. You get anima, get your covenant set, then nothing. So there’s literally zero solo progression. Visions allowed solo progression. You get gear, and that helps you do more masks.
2 Likes
And I gave you an example. You just refuse to listen
Yeah they tried that, and it resulted in nerfs turning torghast into basically a daycare.
Solo players won’t even work for their legendaries, why bother adding more difficult stuff for them to work towards only to nerf it a few weeks later into the ground?
I specified pve. You don’t offer raiding as an option for someone who wants a pvp progression path. And you don’t offer arena as someone who wants a pve progression path. PVE and PVP fundamentally appeal to different groups. While there can be some crossover, crossover cannot be assumed.
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Don’t speak for me - I got my legendary maxed out weeks and weeks ago. I did that solo. I did up to layer 7 pre-nerf. Stop acting like you speak on behalf of a broad playerbase that you apparently, know little about.
That’s not what most are asking for, or that they have been asking for for years.