I think this discussion has run its course. I’ll probably come back and read, but unless there’s something new contributed, I think I’m done replying. We’re at about the 15th time running through the same circular discussion. While a few people have added new contributions, it’s mostly just been the same questions for the past hundred or so replies.
We made it most of the way without devolving into trolling too much, so that’s pretty good. Thanks for all the good discussion to the vast majority of the posters - both for and against this idea - in this thread. I hope Blizzard can take something from the discussion here.
(And thanks to the trolls for the signal boost - much appreciated. :))
Wow has one of the biggest gatekeeping communities I’ve ever seen. People out here ready to punch their grandmas to protect their ilvl.
Seriously, the request to have more content or features is really not that big of a deal, but the conversation always turns into some trolling garbage. Just chill out people.
Blizzard seems to have a belief that rewards scale up with challenge. They put in extremely rewarding soloable content in 8.3 (horrific visions), but all solo players screamed and cried for nerfs the entire time.
I want more content. Make it challenging if it gives raid level rewards.
Here is the quote YOU cited in the post I responded to:
Where in that quote does anyone mention any sort of anxiety? Or disability?
You chose a quote that merely points out that some folks like to play with one or two people at their own pace and YOU said those people have a “strange behavioral disorder.”
That’s a pretty weird thing to say. And it isn’t on me to read every post you have made in this topic to figure out what you actually maybe meant. Your post, as written, is an offensive and odd and utterly silly idea.
Like many around here, I suspect, I am done with you. If your posts are sincere, then I don’t want to pick on a person who has issues. Hope you get help. If you are trolling: You should be a better person.
No, it’s not the issue. This issue at hand is the removal of the idea that you can play the game the way you want to and replaced with the way we want you to.
That’s like telling people to choose Scorpion over Sub-Zero because Scorpion has more moves. Some people want to play a different way. So it has little to do with lack of ambition and drive.
Progression of one’s character should never be limited by the game play style they choose. This isn’t World of Raidcraft, or Mythiccraft, respectfully. And an MMORPG doesn’t dictate that people should be forced into a specific playstyle, or be forced to group together. Otherwise it isn’t an RPG, and Multiplayer just indicates that more people inhabit the game.
Well to my knowledge there has never been a way for a player to earn the highest rewards in the game without a group, so can you explain what has changed since BFA?
Ok cool. That’s great for you and you’ll probably get it since that all blizzard does.
There’s also clearly a lot of players who would like to have more features outside of that content so they could diversify their game time a little bit. Not a particularly hard thing to understand. And in order for those new features to feel like a meaningful time spent, they’ll need to have some sort of progression system attached. Gear that is actually an upgrade for the player would be an obvious solution, but I’m sure people would be open to a number different reward system if you have some suggestions.
Everyone wants to twist the conversation to “well you shouldn’t get bis for world quest.” That’s not the point.
Define “highest rewards”. Because in past expansions there have always been alternatives to BiS, either through questing or crafting, that can make a character competitive and provide a sense of progression.
Just because an iLvL is higher doesn’t mean that it is better gear.
At what point is removing options better for a game’s player retention, and at what point does player agency take a back seat to an unwritten directive of group play?
Well, you threw gear in there. It’s lazy, but it’s a suggestion. Now explain how close to max level that gear should be? They give everyone 200 for free. Heroic is 213 and mythic is 226. Where should solo players land?
I didn’t limit my response to only BFA, however, you identified one option to character progression that was removed. It may not have been perfect, but it did allow for a means of progression.
Back to my original statement.
Why do you feel that limiting a progression path for different playstyles is inherently good for the game?
Think long term, not just the hype of a new expansion either. Generally everyone wants to experience the “newness”, but after that wears off, and you hit max level. The path of progression is limited to only 3 aspects of the game. Raiding, Mythic + Dungeons, and PVP.
Some people do not have the skill level to do PvP. The time to invest in Raiding. The patience to play the quick style of timed dungeons.
Yet, you would have there characters stagnate, even though they are willing to put in the time and effort if given a choice that follows their gameplay style.
Well, contingent on the new feature being challenging and engaging by itself, I wouldn’t really care where the ilvl landed as long as it offered progression within that system. I don’t care if it was 240 but was completely unusable outside of that system (ie in raids, pvp, etc). I don’t even care if it was something more trivial like being integrated with a new housing system. That’s kind of the point. The ilvl is an issue that you are concerned with, not me, so I suggested that you offer your opinion on what that solution could be.
For me, I just want some new gameplay that you feel like you can progress through. Eg, what torghast should have been.
You and me both. They have crazy potential with rewards and progression in Torghast. But if it’s challenging there will be a river of tears on these forums.
Sorry Sallashra, I think I inadvertently gave the full mooners one last straw to use. Muting thread, not fond of bullies let alone putting down handi-capped people.
Thank you for sharing some sensible thoughts on soloing.
You made this up, like your bud. No one put anyone down. This is the problem with the both of you. You are so in your own heads that you create issues that are non existent.
No one said that, at all. You decided to go to the extreme basis of comprehension on everything. You didn’t toe across that line you pole vaulted. Now when others have called you out on it, you both leave, hoping things will cool like every other day Sallashra pulls this.
But do mute it, and realize you brought it down this rabbit hole.