Solo Progression Makes Sense

[Grizzle-eredar]

So I need someone to riddle me this, as I’m genuinely curious as well as confused.

Solo players are wanting better rewards for harder content right? Have we looked at the tiers to “harder content” though?

Easy mode: solo play. 1 character only. WQs, questing, Torghast

Normal Mode: Requires 5 players, due to harder content. Dungeon runs. With its own 3 tier set inside (normal, heroic, m+)

Hard Mode: Requires 10-25 people, due to difficulty. Raids. With their own tier rankings inside as well (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic)

As the game gets more difficult, the more players that are needed to overcome it. Solo and “harder content” do not go hand in hand.

And with “social anxiety” aside since that’s a minority amongst the minority (honestly, those with social anxiety are not going to willingly open up on GD where you can be faced with up to thousands of responses and attitudes and behaviors)…so with that aside…what’s the difference between spending 40 hours and failing in Torghast because they actually made it challenging for “solo” play, and spending 40 hours trying to get along with other people and failing?

Why can’t you look at the difficulty tiers, and try tackling “grouping with others” as a challenge in itself. It is difficult, but guess what, with that renewed difficulty, comes that extra gear you wanted

Having content “scale” with ilvl doesn’t make it “harder”. It remains the same. You get stronger, the mobs get stronger, it still takes the same 3 abilities to complete the WQ as it did 40 ilvls ago.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Remo-kaelthas

Some people do not have the skill level to do PvP. The time to invest in Raiding. The patience to play the quick style of timed dungeons.
Yet, you would have there characters stagnate, even though they are willing to put in the time and effort if given a choice that follows their gameplay style.

As long as there’s a cap on gear, everyone stagnates. People were sitting idle at 226 before most “solo” people began to stagnate at 200. Notice how they both hit their walls? And they both have more options to increase their gear so long as they choose to do so

So it is a mindset of, if I want that, I have to do this…but I don’t want to do it.

I don’t raid, so I’ll be capped at 226 instead of 233

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

Because that is how the game works and has worked for 16 years.
If you do not like the game, or have time to play it, then that can not be placed on Blizzard’s shoulders purely.
Admit some responsibility and stop acting like Blizzard is suddenly wasting your great passion.

[Saliashra-sargeras]

That’s fine. Don’t feel bad. There’s a lot of able-ism in gaming, and I can’t say I’m innocent of it. I’ve been a part of the problem in the past, and it’s one of those insidious problems gaming just can’t seem to shed. Hopefully in the years to come strides will be made, but we just gotta do the best we can around it.

Aside from that, there are several people who are so pessimistic and stuck in the way things ‘have always been’ that they literally cannot picture things being better. Not much we can do for them. But fortunately they’re not who we have to convince of this.

I still have hope. There was a lot of great discussion in the thread. I think Blizzard is capable of filtering out the people who are against the idea solely because ‘it’s not how we’ve done things for years’ to get to the real feedback and discussion.

And, with that being the case, it’s in their court. If they want to improve things, we’ll probably see it start in a couple patches. If not, well, that’s their choice too. I will simply move on to a new game if things continue as they are forever. It’ll be unfortunate because I generally like Blizzard’s design, but if they want to kill the solo player forever, then well… that’s their decision to make. And all I can do in that case is find a new home. But they’ve earned enough goodwill from me for me to at least try offer feedback before I just quit silently.

[Remo-kaelthas (Remo)]

@Grizzle-eredar

So it is a mindset of, if I want that, I have to do this…but I don’t want to do it.

This right here a good example of where things can be improved. Instead of telling players…You’re still limiting real player agency. Restricting progression.

Why does raiding, mythic, pvp, have to be the only way to progress?

[Necroth-burning-blade]

There is no good argument against solo progression, this argument has come up over and over and there’s never a good answer.

Its not even that the players who are against it don’t want to play that way, the literally do not want it to be viable for anyone to progress as a solo player in this game.

People have suggested all sorts of things including buffs, tabards, items, instanced play things that don’t even involve players who are against solo progression and solo play and that is not enough, they are so opposed to it so as to not want it to even exist.

And yet they are fine with those solo players making WOW available with their paid subs

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Remo-kaelthas

Why does raiding, mythic, pvp, have to be the only way to progress?

It’s not. Solo play has its progression path. You just keep conveniently leaving that out.

[Remo-kaelthas (Remo)]

@Metrohaha-firetree

Because that is how the game works and has worked for 16 years.
If you do not like the game, or have time to play it, then that can not be placed on Blizzard’s shoulders purely.
Admit some responsibility and stop acting like Blizzard is suddenly wasting your great passion.

So you’re saying that at 16 the game can’t evolve? They’ve hit the limit. That no matter what I do, or others do, it’s never anything Blizzard should address?

There are countless threads with players taking responsibility and saying that they are willing to invest the time and effort into aspects of the game that already exist. Yet there are dismissed out of hand, because they didn’t follow the same path that others have.
That’s the real waste here.
Stop white knighting for the team behind WoW. They can do better, because they have done better in the past.

[Necroth-burning-blade]

@Metrohaha-firetree

Because that is how the game works and has worked for 16 years.
If you do not like the game, or have time to play it, then that can not be placed on Blizzard’s shoulders purely.
Admit some responsibility and stop acting like Blizzard is suddenly wasting your great passion.

The game has existed not “worked” for 16 years. When are you and the rest of the minority of paying subscribers going to wake up and smell the coffee? If it wasn’t for solo players, you’d have no game! And no forums to make you feel special with your little “green” text

[Remo-kaelthas (Remo)]

A progression path that’s arbitrarily limited.

Name one way to gain gear that is competitive to either of the three above?

[Sarama-firetree]

@Necroth-burning-blade

People have suggested all sorts of things including buffs, tabards, items, instanced play things that don’t even involve players who are against solo progression and solo play and that is not enough, they are so opposed to it so as to not want it to even exist.

If you add in a way to get good gear to this system where gear is scarce, it becomes effectively mandatory for everyone. Now, if you want some kind of gear that only is good when you’re alone, you’d probably get no objections.

[Necroth-burning-blade]

@Sarama-firetree

If you add in a way to get good gear to this system where gear is scarce, it becomes effectively mandatory for everyone. Now, if you want some kind of gear that only is good when you’re alone, you’d probably get no objections.

You’d think so, but that’s not the case, I have been on a number of threads where the suggestions where simply to allow solo players a place to progress only during solo content, giving them the efficiency of a maxed geared player albeit through their own solo path of progression but that efficiency only applied to solo content, it would affect nothing else,

the outcry was significant nothing of substance, just loud

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Remo-kaelthas

A progression path that’s arbitrarily limited.

Name one way to gain gear that is competitive to either of the three above?

It’s not limited. You not wanting to progress in difficulty isn’t my issue.

Me not wanting to raid to get raid level gear isn’t Raiders fault.

Solo play, the easiest difficulty of play, gives gear well beyond its means. In fact, it gives gear thats almost midway through medium difficulty content, and entry level to hardest level content.

[Sarama-firetree]

Well, you’ll get no argument from me at least!

[Remo-kaelthas (Remo)]

@Sarama-firetree

If you add in a way to get good gear to this system where gear is scarce, it becomes effectively mandatory for everyone. Now, if you want some kind of gear that only is good when you’re alone, you’d probably get no objections.

That’s flawed though. Players didn’t create the gear scarcity. That was blizz’s doing.
The idea that gear would only work if you’re alone also creates the elitism that means that no matter what you do, you’re playstyle will always be inferior. You wouldn’t be able to group well with others when the occasion suited you, or LFR.

Solo/Casual players do tend to group up from time to time.

[Grizzle-eredar]

I’d be perfectly fine with this. Now the issue is…what’s deemed “solo”’content where this scaling gear takes place?

[Remo-kaelthas (Remo)]

@Grizzle-eredar

Solo play, the easiest difficulty of play, gives gear well beyond its means. In fact, it gives gear thats almost midway through medium difficulty content, and entry level to hardest level content.

Depends on how you play. Do you challenge yourself to see how many elites you can take down at once? Or solo quests that suggest 3 or more players?
My track to gear, and progression, becomes your issue when you are lobbying against it.

[Necroth-burning-blade]

@Grizzle-eredar

Solo play, the easiest difficulty of play, gives gear well beyond its means. In fact, it gives gear thats almost midway through medium difficulty content, and entry level to hardest level content.

why is that even an issue? if someone plays solo, why would them being on par gearwise with someone that raided or pvped even an issue? even if Blizzard simply gave everyone a max level gear set at the beginning of the content patch or xpack why would that be an issue?

would it detract from players wanting to raid or pvp? if so, then maybe that style of play isn’t that much fun and people just do it for gear? maybe you’re AFRAID that solo players will dominate the landscape? not only in numbers and paid subs which they already do, but in how people chose to play and oh no! maybe the game would start catering to those who pay rather than the loudest voices of a minority group

[Sarama-firetree]

@Remo-kaelthas

Players didn’t create the gear scarcity. That was blizz’s doing.

Yes, I’m aware.

@Remo-kaelthas

The idea that gear would only work if you’re alone also creates the elitism that means that no matter what you do, you’re playstyle will always be inferior

Sounds like a personal issue? If you like soloing and you did something to get the best solo set out there, I say great job, you’re probably better than me.

@Remo-kaelthas

You wouldn’t be able to group well with others when the occasion suited you, or LFR.

People keep saying they don’t want to do group content. Problem solved. Remember we’re talking about something that would be better for soloing than the current Max (covenant gear + legendary + WQs) so you’d still be sitting almost normal raid ilevel in group content. LFR would be a faceroll.

[Remo-kaelthas (Remo)]

@Sarama-firetree

People keep saying they don’t want to do group content. Problem solved. Remember we’re talking about something that would be better for soloing than the current Max (covenant gear + legendary + WQs) so you’d still be sitting almost normal raid ilevel in group content. LFR would be a faceroll.

You’re the one who brought up item scaling, or not working if you were in group.

@Sarama-firetree

Now, if you want some kind of gear that only is good when you’re alone, you’d probably get no objections.

Tell me that gear from raiding, mythic, or pvp, has no impact on TC. Should they have their gear scaled down to a solo player’s level?