Whilst I agree on your points with at least CS proccing seals/WF (which honestly I found weird it didn’t) I don’t think you can say every Ret wanted seal twisting.
Abusing batching mechanics for an extremely unintuitive interaction shouldn’t be the design choice that the developers go forward with.
It is unintentional for a paladin to be able to maintain more than one seal at a time, regardless of duration which is the entire mechanic involved in seal twisting.
Maybe if there was a rune that specifically enforced that interaction by deliberately extending your initial seal duration by ~2-3s when changing seal for upto 2 weapon swings (ie 1 AA and CS).
But without the implicit design and communicated interaction, I don’t believe seal twisting belongs in the game in that manner.
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What a surprise, paladins crying. Who would’ve thought.
I am always puzzled when people say Paladins get nothing next phase. They seem to be under the impression that just because Repentance does nothing for dps, Ret gets nothing at all from the rest of the tree. Completely ignoring that almost all of the talents are just passive damage modifiers.
Off the top of my head, next phase they’ll get:
6% damage (2h spec)
10% Holy damage (Sanctity Aura)
15% Physical + 15% Holy damage (Vengeance)
For a total of 21% Physical damage and 25% Holy damage increase. And certain abilities, like SoC, gets benefits from both physical and Holy damage buffs. Meaning it double dips.
Ret isn’t going to be top tier, that’s still going to be Warriors, but they sure as hell ain’t going to be last. Unless every other spec get some crazy runes and Ret gets nothing, of course.
We’re Alliance so it’s natural we don’t directly compare ourselves. This is our only DPS spec as well which is at least still wanted for 1 spot in a raid. Enhancement will need some love. It will likely have a lot of turbulence, but you will have elemental to fall back on.
We’ll be stuck as holy or God forbid protection if the resilience meta shifts the momentum toward the awful attrition style gameplay.
Off the top of my head, next phase they’ll get:
6% damage (2h spec)
10% Holy damage (Sanctity Aura)
15% Physical + 15% Holy damage (Vengeance)
For a total of 21% Physical damage and 25% Holy damage increase. And certain abilities, like SoC, gets benefits from both physical and Holy damage buffs. Meaning it double dips.
Ret isn’t going to be top tier, that’s still going to be Warriors, but they sure as hell ain’t going to be last. Unless every other spec get some crazy runes and Ret gets nothing, of course.
Most of our damage is physical and weapon based now making sanctity aura quite a bit less useful. Everyone gets some kind of modifier but paladins have not been known to scale well with what we are given.
It’s more PvP related in which we have to have some useful damage or otherwise it’s put on the dress and bring a mortal strike warrior.
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Ret is already stupid strong, and you’re asking for MORE?
When do Shaman get buffs for PvP? They’re only viable as tanks and healers, that’s it.
You do the same amount of damage as a Mage, AND you’re unkillable as of now.
You have your WoTLK toolkit, kindly shut the hell up. You’re luckier than any other DPS class except Hunter.
Try playing another class, any caster except Druid, and see how that goes fighting a Paladin.
So privileged and you don’t even know it.
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Just because Shamans are lacking doesn’t mean paladins don’t and won’t need love. It’s a silly form of logic. They BOTH need some love.
Problem with Ret paladins is that in world PvP our burst in a HoJ is silly whereas you add 25% damage reduction and 5% crit reduction burst is severely limited and our sustain DPS sucks.
This is level 25 which is like PEAK paladin performance yet we are losing to every other melee DPS except for shaman and some casters.
By phase 2 this will worsen without solid rune abilities and if resilience is here to stay it OVERWHELMINGLY affects our damage modifier in a negative way. If we don’t bring big pressure we are useless and will have to put on the dress.
Mortal strike will outperform us and there wont be a reason to bring a ret/warrior when you can just warrior/warrior.
For the life of me, I can’t imagine being a Paladin that complains about anything in SoD. The clear cut winner of phase 1 runes by an entire country mile, and he wants WF to proc off of everything?
Just… strange
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Why is it strange to bring up an inconsistency in what procs something?
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I actually attempted to read through this thread.
I want my brain cells back.
Wtf is even going on with the level of intelligence and understanding going on in here? I’m really worried about our education system.
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The incessant asking of more and more and more…
Just don’t get it.
I could understand if you were pretty much any class but Paladin. Definitely don’t get it as a Paladin, though
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I don’t get why you don’t get it. The OP clearly outlined Quick Strike proccing wild strikes, and a similar ability, Crusader Strike, does not. Why is it wrong to expect them to act the same way?
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Which might as well be nothing compared to what other classes get.
6% damage with melee weapons only affects part of Paladin’s damage that scales off melee weapon damage. It’s not a 6% total damage increase it’s about 4.5%.
Vengeance is only up for a few seconds after a crit, so it isn’t up at the start of a fight and falls off frequently as the fight drags on. With maybe 20-25% crit rate, you’ll be lucky to have 50% up time and frequently less as Paladin has slow swings and long cooldowns. Meanwhile warrior gets 25% damage bonus for being crit, and 30% attack speed bonus for landing a crit.
Sanctity Aura applies to about 20-25% of Paladin damage, so it’s not a 10% damage boost, it’s a 2-2.5% damage boost. And then you’re giving up your aura for it, so you lose your thorns aura or your armor buff. A lateral move in most cases, and in many a downgrade.
So for all of the talent points Paladin gets in Phase 2, it’s going to increase damage output by 14-15%. It’s already 25-30% behind warrior, who has a lot more to look forward to in Phase 2.
Ret is fine. Paladins are a support class and shouldn’t be focusing on DPS anyway. Ret is probably a little overtuned in pvp too.
I’d advocate for more support abilities/buffs, starting with 10 minute duration on standard Blessings.
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They were a support class in Era. They don’t have to be in Season of Discovery.
Yeah but i want them to be, so there
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Seal of the Martyr should be doing holy (physical) damage instead in my opinion. Would add more value to things like Sanctity Aura, Seal of Crusader judgement, and talents. Would also help them scale better with holy damage’s lack of resistance.
Especially if strikes correctly procced seals etc as it would essentially turn 30% of paladins damage into the holy type.
Lmao, can’t argue with that logic 
I don’t agree with the sentiment, but great rebuttal. 
Here is the most based. And also balanced take you are going to read. And it is from a shaman.
Rets should have:
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Seals should obviously proc on crusader strikes, and divine storm, if this isnt happening it is a bug. Warriors have sword proc and deepwounds benefit from their extra attacks. Shamans imbues proc off of lava lash and will proc off of stormstrike.
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Windfury should be able to proc from divine storm, it should also proc from crusader strike. It’s asinine that it doesn’t. I am not sure if windfury procs should proc seals as that seems to be something that could be way too much burst but idk.
At the SAME TIME I also believe:
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Shamans need stormbringer mechanic from retail where special attacks including ss can reset the cooldown on stormstrike, potentially it should do more than just an extra attack. Likely bonus damage, mana return, or some form of nature vuln that is a raid debuff.
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shamans need MSW to use their spells that are castable similar to the exorcism rune and so shamans can heal in combat due to lack of pushback protection, no hard ccs, and no immunites.
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potentially a burst cleave option with Crash Lightning or Sundering so we have options that scale with our MH weapon damage similar to warrior, rogue, melee hunter(LMAO they got carve and we didnt get crash lightning!?!?!?), and ret who have divine storm.
I don’t see why hybrid Melees like shaman or ret need to be just mediocre, or absolutely horrendous like shaman. I mean after all the best DPS in the game is and has been a hybrid tank/dps class… Warrior.
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Prot warriors have the same damage as ret pallies on warcraft logs, they probably need all the help they can get lol.