why do you care ? You sit all day in oribos
1 Like
Fair enough, good luck with your voidy adventures.
I very much doubt it. But hey, you do you.
2 Likes
The Alliance is clearly not âfavored by Blizzardâ. That much is obviously.
That said, youâre totally right, the Alliance technically has a number of victories under its belt. My point is that those victories are never showcased. And to be clear, Rastakhan was a cool character, but he very specifically was NOT a member of the Horde.
There tends to be a lot of tit-for-tat when it comes to âwho is allowed to get a winâ. I think itâs one of the reason WoWâs story has suffered so much, because Blizzard is in a no-win situation when it comes to writing stories; they pretty much HAVE to treat both factions totally equally. So for pretty much every âvictoryâ one faction gets, there is a mirror on the other party.
The irony of the Siege of Orgrimmar stuff, is how is completely and utterly amounted to nothing. Whatâs funnier is that throughout BFA, IN-GAME the Horde was every confrontation with a decisive victory. They literally broke into the most guarded fortress in the heart of Allianceâs stronghold to break out several high-value prisoners at the start of BFA. Yet in the LORE, the Alliance was supposedly winning all these battles⌠which were never reflected in-game. And yet at the very end, the ENTIRE MILITARY MIGHT OF THE ALLIANCE is unable to fight Sylvanas without the help of the Horde.
Itâs honestly⌠pretty bad writing all around.
2 Likes
The very first skeleton she raised that looked like a tauren may have made me actually lose my crap entirely for half a minute while I was playing.
Iâve never wanted to kill a lore character more.
How dare she touch the body of a Tauren? Theyâre one of the few races with extensive death rites.
2 Likes
I can kind of understand why it wasnât making any sense that sylvanas was as powerful as she was⌠But we were unaware that she had gotten an upgrade at some point in time after dying by killing herself after arthas died. Somehow instead of ending up in revendreth for you know the entire wrathgate thing (which she knew about! just go do the quest there and read them! she knew!) She was briefly put into contact with the maw (perhaps the odd proximity of torghast to ICC messed up her trip to the arbiter) and was trying to avoid the jailer? (Odinâs chicks saw her fall and rezzed her and ended up saving her from the Maw) but when her deal with Helya went south (thank Genn. This may be his fault!) She had sold her fate to the Jailer.
Sometime after losing her one chance to escape the jailer, she was then tethered to him. (This may be during the power up sequence when helya and her make the deal the first time) but we donât see that go into fruition until she starts raising armies of the dead who follow her every command mindlessly⌠Which does make sense if she has a power source beyond that of just existing as an undead elf.
After all you can definitely tell the helm of domination has the power it does because itâs clearly part of who the jailer is.
If sylvanas has that power herself because of her connection to the maw, her ability to command the undead (who arenât free-willed forsaken who already have shaken away that influence) it makes perfect sense why she can command armies of undead simply by wanting them to do things.
And it also makes sense why she was able to raise so many dark Rangers. After all at that point everybody was going to the maw. Blizzard said there was a good reason why it was happening but people really didnât like that so they were literal elves who were refusing to come which meant they were choosing full extinction.
What would be interesting is now that sylvanas is⌠Out of our hair on whatever level that will look like� I can imagine the dark Rangers wanting to go home, and not be part of the horde, and be well understood by those who run the alliance as souls who escaped the maw with the intent to rebel against sylvanas at their earliest convenience.
Iâm not sure if that lore will ever get worked into character creation but there should be a contingent of dark Ranger elves that are not belf based but are actually night elf based. (Forgive me if this got added at some point during BFA I kind of quit early on because I hated Island expeditions)
They totally are. The Horde can only dream of having leaders who donât die and have so much power that they can solo entire armies.
What does the on-paper matter when it never manifests in game? Every time the Alliance has an advantage it magically evaporates before it has an effect.
Remember the Kul Tiran that Alliance spent the whole story camping getting back. It all lemminged into an ocean hole the moment we could actually use it.
That happens every time. Every single time Alliance get an âadvantageâ it literally self-destructs the moment we could use it.
sorry you were saying?
I could link back the video of Sylvanus blighting the Undercity saying you have âYou have won, nothingâ as the Alliance runs for their lives but why bother.
Also, if we wana talk night elves/night warrior thing. I could link back Tyrande just losing here Super Sayan Elune powers the moment she could beat Sylvanus. But hey! That one supply caravan sure did unburn that tree in the background!
Alliance is a is just a foil for the horde plot. If they ever used any of their supposed power the wars/story would be over that is why it becomes useless the exact moment it should help push us over the edge.
2 Likes
The Horde also had a much easier time getting around and had more flightpaths
You might want to be careful about comparing that sort of thing⌠Because the alliance had 3,000 plus quests in classic and The horde only had about 2,000.
And the reason why I know is I actually went ahead and did them all before cataclysm came out and just to see if I could, and was shocked to see the difference in numbers.
Plot wise a lot of what the alliance goes through doesnât make sense except for the fact that it does continuously result in The horde looking bad because we break the Geneva convention on a slightest whim because our leadership is either incompetent, far too trusting, or is downright the most evil thing the writers could think of.
Anduinâs ark into full-blown we arenât even sure if heâs evil or just corrupted or whatever⌠Itâs probably the most interesting thing thatâs ever happened to an alliance leader and yes that includes tyrande and her vendetta.
But that being said: I donât trust a guy who has devoted himself, and submitted full control over who he is as a person to creatures that we know are just as impossibly evil as they are good, sitting on the throne in anduins absence.
I think some absolutely ludicrous stuff is on the way coming out of Turalyon. Especially since we know there is influence of the old gods centered on stormwind right now.
Blizzard did half-baked content!? Shocker! In other news water is wet and humans breath oxygen!
What the alliance goes through is dancing incompetently in the background while horde story progresses. Itâs always been that.
Anduins crap was boring. Tyrandes was worse because it was meaningless, and you could remove it and the terrible story would be the same.
But at least Sylvanus can sit in the maw until all the haters forget about her. Also for the record most Alliance donât like Anduin. All he ever has done is crap on the Alliance and boo ho about how about horde problems.
I donât like this writing team and they will prolly just do standard nihilism crap and destroy more lore.
1 Like
If they ever truly go for the âLight is actually evil hur hur hurâ angle after the majority of WoWâs history has pinned it as a force for good, itâs going to be awful writing.
If they can keep it nuanced between Void and Light seeking to dominate the other, it is fine, but I do not trust Blizzard to effectively pull that off in an expansion
I mean I could doomsay things but thereâs always a possibility that lacking the guy who decided to make the entirety of shadowlands be one long snuff film, that someoneâs going to come up with something that will be interesting based on what we know of the lore. Iâm more than willing to do consultation.
Thereâs a lot of places where the story can go that wonât be bad even though everything in the shadowlands was bad.
I donât know if I can trust, and I will always be doubtful of anyone who follows the naaru without thinking things through.
It may be better for it to never come to fruition simply because they wonât be able to write it in a way that will make sense.
But the existential horror of having someone who is naaru corrupted sitting on the throne of stormwind who could at any time be called upon by the naaru too I donât know, slaughter all those corrupted by the curse of flesh?
That would be something that could be interesting to watch.
Weâve already seen some nonsense with yrel.
And the fact that the light is not necessarily trustworthy should be understood is something thatâs been around since vanilla: people asked metzen why it was the Scarlet crusade had the ability to use the light when they were clearly so evil⌠Even run by a dreadlord! And he was clear on the fact that the light doesnât distinguish good versus evil and is itself capable of great evil as well as great good, based solely on the beliefs of the person using it (that is so long as the person believes that they are doing the greater good, the light will support them).
The fact that you still believe that the light is always good and the void is always evil is very silly because clearly if the light isnât always good, the void isnât always evil and that is very⌠interesting.
Especially since the curse of flesh, as a note, not only gave us free will, but also made us capable of disabling things that were designed to destroy us should we ever gain free will.
2 Likes
Thatâs not what I said, though.
Fundamentally, they have drawn Void vs Light to be one of the massive struggles in the cosmos, both seeking to dominate the other. The Scarlet Crusade is a fumble of a story within itself, as well, because they werenât âevilâ until a literal dreadlord seized control of the leadership, driving the organization deeper into fanaticism.
Back on topic, yes, the Light has always been capable of evil; but for the majority of WoWâs history, it has been a force of good. I really think they rushed out the story that Xeâra was involved with, completely jumping the shark in fact, in the arc of âmaking illadin not a crazy guy from outlandâ bad blizzard writing staple WoW storytelling and just grasping at straws.
Here, in the same arc, we follow the etheral dude and Alleria as they explore Alleriaâs training to use the void and we see a force of void influence appearing in Macâaree and just absolutely destroying everything that it touches while they talk about how itâs actually not that bad lol
Planets we see dominated and suffocated by the Void while fighting Argus â several hundreds
Planets we see dominated and suffocated by the Light â zero
Whatever concept they were trying to establish in 7.3, they did a very poor job of showing what they meant. Everything they say about the void in that patch seems to contradict what we are shown and interact with, while everything they show us about the light seems to contradict what is said.
this is why I donât have faith they can pull off a nuanced and balanced story revolving around the Light and Void.
Edit: for example, about Yrel, everyone seems to miss the part of that story where the Orcs maybe, possibly started practicing void/dark magics again, damaging the world, and thus somewhat forced the Draeneiâs hand to reel the orcs back in.
1 Like
Alliance wins 50% of the time.
Fixed it for you.
1 Like
Except to me that again is a violation of free will.
I donât care if the orcs are using void magic.
I donât care if the orcs are practicing dark magic.
The orcs cannot possibly make things worse than they already were.
Yrel taking it upon herself to crusade against the orcs and put them directly into a situation of âconvert to the light or dieâ is tyranny and 100% evil.
Iâm also on the page of what they tried to do to illidan was also 100% evil. He said no repeatedly, they refused to listen⌠And it was only through a matter of will that he was able to stop the process that was trying to convert him into a mindless slave of the naaru.
Deciding that there isnât something deeply wrong with the light because you want the light to always be good is I think trying to draw upon real world religion stronger than the light actually does.
The light is not an equivalent to a god of goodness. Especially since we know that the light has an intimate relationship with Shadow magic, and naru are voidwalkers. Which of course does also mean the voidwalkers are naru.
Denying the fact that they are the sides of the same coin simply because you want to draw some sort of goodness into the light is precisely why it is so effective to continue to play with this because for some reason itâs subverting your expectations.
It doesnât subvert mine because I have officially written off every naaru ever since TBC at oshuâgun/sunwell.
People seem to forget that the axis of magic has six modes with each having an opposite that regulates and is an intimate part of it. Life and death, fel and arcane and light and Shadow. You donât get light without shadow. You donât get shadow without light. And priests play with this dicotomy because they canât help it. Being involved in one deeply means you are always on the verge of becoming the other.
And the neutral naaru in the priest hall was clear: the endless flipping of light to shadow and shadow to light is due to a lack of discipline. And denying it happens is what allows people to fall directly into the clutches of the old gods.
(I suppose I trust that naaru because itâs the first one that is honest about its state)
1 Like
It is funny that lore wise the alliance is much more powerful than the horde but in game they do absolutely nothing. In the books Jaina was close to solo wiping out org.