So whats the DPS loss using 1 button?

I been using it on my new Demon Hunter and I love it. Never looking back. Easy to play & Clean Ui > everything else.

Except it’s not cheating. It’s one push, one spell, not executing an entire sequence. The OBR does a specific dps rotation that leaves out a great many other spells that require mastery of your class to do well in high-end content. To mitigate the time saved by not pressing individual buttons, the OBR has a dps penalty.

You can argue that the penalty isn’t high enough and that’s fair. But to call it cheating, we’d both have to agree that’s what OBR is. To me, it’s not.

The second argument seems to concern merit. Who deserves to be in high end content? Someone who had done research, had experience with success at similar content, uses their spells properly, and does relevant mechanics. ā€˜Deserves’ is a tough word to navigate. More like ā€˜earned the right to be there,’ and that’s up to the raid leader who does the vetting.

The OBR does not account for all the skills needed to get there, but a select portion of it. If you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s going to show, and you won’t be invited back after a trial run. This is true for OBR users or anyone else who is underperforming for whatever reason.

The third point, which rewatching the video is discussed at length, is third party add-ons are being phased out. Maybe not this year or next, but is coming. So outside helpers like weak auras and DBM may not even be supported a few years from now. This is mentioned by Ion and seems the way they will go.

So any players who have used outside add ons to assist in gameplay might need to use in-game ones to replace them. This includes everyone. If heroic raid leaders didn’t care if players used Hekili, why should they care if players use OBR now? It’s vastly inferior from what I’ve heard.

So basically hunter and Warlock populations are going to increase even more. As they seem to be the main dps to pursue. Especially if 1 button doesn’t effect defensives or cooldowns. So tanks and healers are out.

It’s time to remove the penalty before class populations get even more lopsided.

I think, personally, thats a good thing though…it makes it so everyone can find a spec they enjoy.
I like a little more to do, more keys to bang, even if theyre not in the right order.
Others have complained that even beastmaster is too much to do.

Anyone try it with Arcane Mage? Theres only a 2-3 button rotation as it is (without using CDs).

Arcane relies too much on using the cds manually I think but you can probably get it to work as long as you make it run the opener properly with a castsequence, then put your arcane surges in the right place from them on.

The dexterous load it removes is a thing, but it is by far the less important of the two things it does. If that were all it did I don’t think there would be much of a discussion surrounding it. The OBR has a DPS penalty (and that penalty should be significantly increased) because it removes 100% of the cognitive load of executing your rotation, and 100% of the intellectual understanding that goes into even being capable of executing it at all.

It’s also not one-push-one-spell in truth. The button presses are performative and I unironically have argued, and continue to argue, that so long as the OBR exists at all it should be a toggle. There’s no point in leaving the vestigial button clicking in when the entire point of it is as an accessibility tool. The difficulty of manually inputting your rotation is in the set-up of your binds and macros and the muscle memory involved in pressing the correct sequences. Keyboards are an instrument, not a bench press.

All of this amounts to OBR being a cheat by any meaningful definition of the word. You could be a bad-faith troll and claim that Blizzard including it in the game themselves makes it strictly not a cheat, but it is, and it’s not something you get to have an opinion on. It is a fact.

I’m not trying to be mean here, but it’s difficult to take you seriously when you seem to not even be aware of the actual issue. Automation is like the most classic form of cheating in video games, and automating any part of any competition would also be seen as cheating. Like, we’re discussing how it’s problematic to allow people to use electric scooters in a marathon, and you’re not even registering the obvious issue that is being discussed and instead are talking about how you still have to turn even if the scooter includes a GPS that tells you when to turn.

Everyone deserves the opportunity. No one deserves to be handed the win even if they literally can’t meet the challenge. If you can’t do something without the OBR then you simply are not actually capable of doing it. This is fine for content where the point isn’t if you can or can’t do it, but challenge content is very specifically intended for just that.

Raid leaders have no say in it. They are completely unrelated to this topic. The fact that you think they are relevant is another concerning clue to you not really understanding what we’re even talking about.

Challenge content is someone setting up a bar and seeing who can jump it. Wearing springs is cheating. Jumping a bike off a ramp is cheating. The raid leader is not the person who sets up the challenge; they are just the person whose car some of the people used to attend the event. Their opinion on anything is utterly irrelevant.

This is irrelevant. Cheating is cheating. Automation is automation. Almost all cheating happens through a select portion of a given competition. FPS players bot their aim, or even better they bot the ā€œlast mileā€ of their aim to make the cheating less obvious. Cheaters in a bike race hold onto a water bottle being handed to them from a car a little bit too long. Cartoon characters say OMG WHAT’S THAT and then swap two chess pieces one time instead of moving their rook diagonally every time they move it.

The OBR also isn’t handling some minor thing, but rather perhaps the largest individual factor that goes into success in WoW encounters. The base cognitive load that executing one’s rotation requires acts as a multiplier to the difficulty of everything else. Removing that load both removes the specific work associated with the rotation, as well as drastically reducing how difficult it is to successfully complete every other task an encounter asks of you.

Why are people ok with girl scouts coming by once each year, but put up No Soliciting signs after a couple months of Jehovah’s Witnesses showing up to their house every week?

The OBR is a native tool that everyone has and everyone knows about. Hekili is probably not even a word that the majority would recognize, and obviously it had zero official support. The ubiquity and legitimacy forced the conversation.

The majority of WAs and much of DBM simply reorganize information into something comprehensible. The WAs and parts of DBM that directly instruct you as to what to do are very heavily criticized. Also, everyone I’ve seen take part in the discussion is eager to have Blizzard stop designing encounters that require coordination which is essentially not humanly possible without those functionalities.

Meanwhile there are precisely zero rotations that require inhuman capabilities. Some of them require extensive informational reorganization to play optimally, but Blizzard is unlikely to remove access to the ability to do that with addons without including that ability natively. Doing so is also not automating the gameplay because scanning your frenetic buff bar is not part of that gameplay. The average WA does precisely the same thing that the personal resource bar does.

This is the one benefit I never predicted. I don’t even need Elvui any more and can use default UI with only Weak AuraS. It’s great.

I personally, love using as many active buttons as possible as a mostly solo player. I’ve mained BM Hunter since I first started playing at the beginning of Wrath.

It hurt when they made Murder of Crows passive, but at least they tied it to Kill Command so it still felt like I had some control over it, albeit very little.

Now they’re planning on removing Murder entirely, along with Barrage, which has been one of my favorite talents since it was introduced in MoP.

What has saddened me in response to this, is so many players on the forums saying they want fewer buttons to press, and are glad it’s being removed even though it’s a completely voluntary choice to even take as a talent.

So with OBR, I can’t dismiss I’m being forced at the same time to pare down my rotation when my active talents are unnecessarily being removed from the game. :woman_shrugging:t3::sob:

I don’t play BM but know Murder of Crows from having a mm hunter. I’m sorry you lost a spell you enjoy, but don’t think the OBR/rotation assist has too much to do with it, unless they start gutting specs across the board. So far my unholy DK, frost mage, enhance shaman still have all their spells. My mm hunter never had that many spells.

Anyway maybe you can stage a protest to keep Murder of Crows lol. It works sometimes.

Murder is one of my favorite animations in the game.

For most people its really going to come down to how good the rotation is at choosing the right abilities. IF your reaction times aren’t great or you take even a half a tic to choose an ability then you’re already at a wash for the penalty.