This has never been the Blizzard definition of hybrid, ever.
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Except that locks do have a battle rez, healthstones for a raid healing cooldown option, lots of random utilities between curses and pets⌠And no one complains about them being one of the best DPS.
Itâs not about amounts of utility. It never was in wrath.
Thereâs literally no DPS based on utility tiers like you assert. Every class is supposed to have a good DPS option. Thatâs it. Itâs not supposed to be a gradient based on utility, because they didnât want anyone left out if their utility wasnât needed.
Hence their design goal of âbring the player, not the class.â
That falls apart real fast once you start going âyeah, but feral should really be 1k under everyone else because they can do other things you might not need!â
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After being god tier for the whole of vanilla classic with no buffs to any of the classes 40-50% below you in damage, I just donât feel sorry for warriors.
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This is true, but the bigger issue imo is that what theyâre asking for is ridiculous. They donât want to be good, they want to be top dps by a mile. Sort of like vanilla.
As a warrior main for years who just made a DK for the first time this time around, I wonder if people remember the amount of nerfs warriors got over the years, and people still thrived. I think warriors got lucky this time around, Iâm going to assume most donât even remember the half-assed ideaâs behind TG that made it awful to use until TogC, off hand requiring more hit the less points put into it or the offhand being so slow, Your main would attack 4-5 times but your offhand would attack once or twice given how many points you put into it.
I played warrior in the dumbest ways because of it, that I used one handers. I had 25% hit 100% ARP (without trinkets) got heroic DV and normal DBW and wrecked meters, canât do that now, people are smarter and better than they were back then and most warriors in my groups are pretty good now, this time around. Had a fury warrior once in TogC I could not keep threat from him, geared to the teeth.
If you actually, ACTUALLY played a warrior back in OG wrath, I donât know how you can possibly complain now.
A lot of these buffs were needed tbh. I would like to see some love for warriors but hey, we have warriors in our guild who top the charts
The definition of âhybridâ in WoW terms has always been about the ability to perform multiple roles period.
This is not a term that was ever associated with WoW.
Amazing love it
Uhhh, a warrior in dps gear and dps spec cannot offtank any better than anyone else. An elemental shaman by contrast can heal quite well for a while, completely replenishing a playerâs healthpool many times over. Not as well or for as long as resto spec but still very strong.
Warriorâs buffs are pretty easy to replace with a different class, except perhaps commanding shout, which some top guilds still dont even worry about 
A raid will have 4+ paladins but 0-1 warriors in it.
Still will do more dmg in ICC bis than a warrior in ICC bis, but the warrior wont have the utility.
Paladins were the #1 popular class in quantity and warriors were 10th of 10 for pretty much all of WotlK so far.
Different xpac, might as well be a different game. Guys warriors are great in FF14 or Guild wars
They made it abundantly clear this is what they balanced around.
If you have a warrior, and then a second warrior with all the same spells and dps but the second can also offheal, cleanse, freedom, salve, sac, bubble, etc⌠doesnt that just make warrior two objectively grossly overpowered compared to warrior one?
The whole point of a tax is to compensate for other strengths. If you have other strengths that you cannot physically use than you arent a hybrid. If a fury warrior and a rogue are both hitting a boss, the boss will turn and one shot the warrior and then one shot the rogue. Or the warrior can shield wall and still likely get one shot depending on the boss, maybe live for a few seconds, then the rogue pops evasion and tanks it for way longer. In combat the warrior cannot put on defensive gear. As dps, none of the tanking abilities or talents are useful. No fights in the game have ever been built around warriors being fury but offtanking. Some like Algalon however have been built around a shadowpriest offtanking the big bang effect though lol. Feral is the only class that is a hybrid tank, as you get 6% chance to be missed via talents and can Tank in DPS gear or DPS in Tank gear moderately well in wotlk.
But currently feral is sitting at #1 in dps despite this and can also battle rez and innervate. I use one as an alt, theyre stackable and really overpowered right now.
Youre crowd will also call Arms a PVP spec. There is no such thing. Fury has PVP talents. Fire mages, an S++ pve spec, has PVP talents and is glad viable. Assassination rogues, Uh DKs, Ele shamans, etc are all âPVE specsâ and glad viable. In some cases quite a bit more successful than Arms if you look at play-rate to rank ratio. Every spec was made to have PVP and PVE talents. The idea that some specs can be left to rot was obviously not a part of their 2008 balance philosophy, they just got some of the numbers wrong that rendered some specs underpowered.
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Yes they can. Do you know how Shield Block and the attack table functions?
Shield Block gives you 100% Block Rating.
If you have 100% avoidance/block you cannot be crit. Meaning that dps Warriors can become Crit Immune for short periods of time with absolutely 0 defense or resilence, or talents, nothing but a shield. Paladins and DKs cannot do anything remotely similar.
Irrelevant, Ret will go oom before the above Shield Blocking Warrior dies.
I already went over how easy it is to replace Retâs buffs. Next.
This is outright just a lie and you know it is. Fury is 50 dps behind Ret in its full damage spec that doesnât include many of the utility mentioned.
Exactly, different game, hybrid tax was a VANILLA AND TBC THING.
It is gone in Wrath by design of the bring the player not the class motto that WOTLK was built around. But youâre too dense to understand this.
Lmaoo farmed tbh
I think we can all agree that based on ICC sims no class needed a buff.
But the only buff that was consequential enough to get looked at is probably the Druid feral buff which moved them from A tier to top dps ahead of classes wielding legendaries. They didnât need the buff and it was a big enough buff that it was consequential. When they got buffed they were a solid middle.
Their argument was that they expected to be top⌠Warriors are using the same argument and itâs a bad argument.
The Ret buff not so much and for all intents and purposes Ret and Fury are basically equal.
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Whatâs wrong with ferals being top dam?
The second warrior canât do the damage the first one does while doing all of those things.
At this point I think itâs safe to say that the entire thread is disagreeing with you on this and so were the devs of the time.
So why keep going with this argument?
Yeah, go figure.
OK, but are there actually any situations where they are stacked outside of a meme kill like the hunters doing Onyxia?
More correctly, weâll say âBlizzard calls arms a pvp specâ. Which is kind of the problem with most of your arguments.
I think youâll find that most of us would be happy if arms got buffed up to do reasonable damage, but arms current position isnât a reason to put retribution down to their level by removing the buffs we got.
Nothing, if thatâs how the chips fall. But thereâs a lot wrong with cherry picking them to be. They werenât in a bad spot. They didnât need a buff, the ferals just felt entitled to be top because ⌠Private servers and youtubers. Same argument Furyâs are using now âwe were told weâd be on top!â- itâs a bad argument.
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Ferals had to do some kinda stupid things to be mid tier and simultaneously troll your tank.
They had to be changed.
imagine being some Warrior with +900 bonus Strength and a legendary 2H Axe, and youâre being out-DEEPSâD by a pretty kitty 
thatâs basically whatâs wrong (if youâre a Warrior)
Yeah and warriors with glaives would beat hunters with the KJ orange on anything that wasnât one target.
Warriors in dungeon gear would beat an enhance with a sulfuras.
Itâs a hair brained argument.