Ignoring that both Ner’zhul and Arthas were bonded together for ten years while the lich king slept on the frozen throne. Arthas only got rid of Ner’zhul when he woke up which was just before WOTLK started
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I stand corrected. He didnt even “free” himself and was stuck trying to dominate the mind of a relative child only to get bested by said child who he was planning on turning into a patsy.
Like it or not Ner’zhul was the loser of a cosmic game and while yes one can argue he was initially only doing what he thought was best for his people(gee I wonder where have I heard that story?) He was still beaten by forces out of his control and any “victory” he had was a hollow one that ultimately lead to his own undoing.
Ner’zhul actually wanted to become As one with Arthas, as originally stated in the end of TFT AND at the very of the Arthas novel.
Ner’zhul was truly suprised when Arthas decided only he should be in charge and in Arthas’s own words No one shall ever tell me what to do ever again. From now on there is only Arthas
Except Ner’zhul was never the loser, though. Do I need to repeat his accomplishments yet again? Ner’zhul is the only reason the Scourge was so successful. No Ner’zhul = no Scourge, end of.
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That was not at all what was stated in Warcradt 3.
An Heir Apparent
Though the Dread Lords were pleased that Ner’zhul’s true mission had finally begun, the Lich King himself brooded within the tight, shadowy confines of the Frozen Throne. Despite his vast psychic powers and his complete dominion over the undead, he longed to be free of his icy prison. He knew that Kil’jaeden would never release him from his curse. And, due to his great power, he knew that the demons would destroy him as soon as his mission was completed.Still, he had one chance for freedom - one chance to escape his terrible curse. If he could find a suitable host - some hapless dupe who was torn between darkness and light - he could possess that body and escape the confines of the Frozen Throne forever.
Thus, the Lich King sent his vast consciousness out once again and sought the perfect host.
He didnt just want to “become one” with the Lich King, he wanted to be the dominant power in their mind.
Do you really thing the Legion wouldnt have done something else? His time as Lich King was a punishment. And as the passage I linked he was their prisoner and a pawn. And if he didnt give those results would have just been destroyed by the Legion.
You can admire Dadaleus’s Labyrith while still realizing he was a prisoner of Minos and literally building his own death trap. Dadaleus at least was smart enough to make his escape plan work, Ner’zhul’s plan backfired spectacularly in his face.
They had no other options and were incapable of finding one. The orcs failed, leaving them with nothing.
[quote=“Zerde, post:26, topic:1977649, username:Zerde-sargeras”]
All he had were hollow victories that was another step that lead to his own oblivion.
[/quote]
They weren’t hollow. I’m going to repeat myself for a final time: No Ner’zhul = No Scourge. He is the one that made the Plague of Undeath, he is the one that conquered the Nerubian Kingdom and most of Northrend, he was the one that corrupted Arthas Menethil, he is the figure indirectly responsible for the destruction of Lordaeron, Quel’thalas and Dalaran, without him the Cult of the Damned would never have been formed. No Ner’zhul = No Scourge.
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No, their options were going to work but it would take time. Kil’jaeden was killing two birds with one stone by speeding it up and punishing the upstart shaman in the process.
He literally ends up a broken Hollow shell that wasnt even important enough to be an end boss of his own raid.
They had no other options.
[quote=“Zerde, post:28, topic:1977649, username:Zerde-sargeras”]
He literally ends up a broken Hollow shell that wasnt even important enough to be an end boss of his own raid
[/quote]
A non-point. Ner’zhul’s raid position in the Sanctum of Domination is irrelevant.
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As we have see with the Legion expansion there were other avenues of getting to Azeroth. Ner’zhul starting the plague was KIL’JAEDEN’S plan. Not the Lich King.
Yes it is. He was never important enough to even be a mid tier final boss. Hell, the entire point of me showing the 20th Art is how Ner’zhul is a near non-entity in WoW. If anyone was even to have a brief knowledge of who the Lich King is, they would know it from Arthas’ story and not Ner’zhul.
You’d think Zerde would get tired of being wrong.
Prove me wrong. I say we bring this to general forums and see who is more important to the Lich King’s story. Arthas or Ner’zhul? and see your little echo chamber crumble.
Ner’Zhul is the foundation of the Scourge. Arthas was a better henchman before he picked the crown.
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Ner’zhul was not the “foundation” he was the pawn of the real player, Kil’jaeden. Without Kil’jaeden there would be no Lich King.
As for Arthas, he beat Ner’zhul. It wasnt a coincidence he was Ner’zhul second betrayal by one of his underlings.
You do know WoD happened -way- after WC3, right? Meaning that wasn’t an option available to Kil’jaeden and the Legion?
[quote=“Zerde, post:30, topic:1977649, username:Zerde-sargeras”]
Yes it is. He was never important enough to even be a mid tier final boss. Hell, the entire point of me showing the 20th Art is how Ner’zhul is a near non-entity in WoW. If anyone was even to have a brief knowledge of who the Lich King is, they would know it from Arthas’ story and not Ner’zhul.
[/quote]
No it is not. A raid position has no relevance regarding to the lore of a character.
Ner’zhul was the foundation of the Scourge, for he was the first Lich King. How many times must you be corrected?
I’m sure the Lich King in WoTLK referring to himself as a shaman surely isn’t an indicator of Ner’zhul still being around in-game. Oh wait…
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What, you really think it wouldnt have been a matter of time before a Legion cult here or there finally became strong enough to end up opening the way for the Legion?
Yes it is! Everyone remember Lei Shen, Ragnaros, Nefarian. Anyone else we kill before them is substatially weaker/less important to the lore(example Fandral Staghelm)
Nothing more then an echo especially considering aside from that small reference we end up fighting Arthas and not Ner’zhul. As per Chronicles he was still around, but being given a mental beatdown by Arthas to the point his sliver of self was constantly tourmented.
Arthas novel, pages 306 and 307. A small passage from the book
There was only Arthas, Frostmourne, all but singing at having claimed the final piece of Arthas’s soul, and the orc, whose skull-face was split with triumphant laughter.
Yes! The orc exhilarated, laughing almost hysterically. “I knew you would make this choice. For so long you have wrestled with the last dredges of humanity in you, but no longer. The boy held you back, and now you are free.
He now got to his feet,his body still that of an old orc, We are one Arthas. Together we are the Lich King. No more Ner’zhul, no more Arthas—-Only this one glorious being. With my knowledge we can—“
His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him. Arthas stepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into th dream being that had once been Ner’zhul.
“No” Arthas whispered, “No we. No one tells me what to do. I’ve got everything I need from you. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready”
Edit: In short, you’re wrong. Ner’zhul got caught off guard by Arthas and was killed while both were still on their dream like state
Ner’zhul life story. Caught off guard by his protegé and end up being a prisoner. Should have learned after Gul’dan.
Also I am on vacation but I distinctly recall chronicles giving a slightl different version of that tale.
The only warlock strong enough to open that gateway was none other then AU Gul’dan, and you know it.
Says you, according to the standard you just made up.
So I’m confused, Arthas beat Ner’zhul but he was still around? Doesn’t sound very beaten to me if Arthas could never finish the job.
I would say ‘tell me you don’t know the lore without telling me you don’t know the lore’, but that’s already glaringly obvious from this argument.
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You were and are wrong about Ner’zhul wanting to be the dominant power. That’s all I was proving
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