So the focus is a bit on Thrall and Anduin... but the could story also focus again on

Arthas?

In other words, could we see another character that just wants to see Azeroth burn?

Ok, so this is NOT intended to be a mean or negative post, but I merely want to explore the possibilities introduced by Arthas in Wrath specifically but also more generally.

When I revisited Arthas’s character in like the mid 2010s or something, I had some thought which was like, well yeah he’s killed his father and done all sorts of horrible things… but does he have some kind of plan? Like what is his plan? Is it all for something or other? Could there possibly “be” some kind of real cognizable goal or motivation behind all his evil?

Azeroth is one messed up place, it runs according to a hierarchy of higher beings for the most part, whether they be gods and goddesses like Elune and Cenarius, ultra cosmic level entities like the Pantheon or the Void, countless powerful forces like the Light and the Void, and that’s not even counting the Shadowlands forces and First Ones and others…

…and I feel like on some level it’s cool worldbuilding, but it also seems to deprive the player character of a fundamental sense of mattering or choice.

In some ways, Sylvannas was this way, but Arthas certainly was this way, in that they simply had a massive energy to just rage against the machines.

And that’s the thing, I kinda think that basic idea, raging against the machine, is great storytelling fuel. I think it keeps players playing and interested. And I feel like, revisiting those ideas in some ways, in some calm, ordered but serious way, we could see more villainous characters like Arthas actually make out like heroes somehow. I’m not saying Arthas specifically and defending regicide or anything, but I don’t know, just something gothic and metal that actually comes out on the right side of history.

I feel like there’s historical precedent for this for example reading about Charlemagne, the king of the Franks. Much has been made about his Carolingian Renaissance and stuff like that, but apparently the Franks were mainly interested in Roman antiquity not necessarily to continue sort of the “civilization” but for it’s religious writings and perfecting grammar and parts about god.

Not only that, but their mission often in battle was brutal, it was seeking out often Arian goths or other Germanic peoples and ruthlessly christianizing them, which actually was in like with Roman ideas that Arianism was merely a way of looking like Christians but on some deep level continuing their pagan ways.

I mean, Charlemagne never murdered his father or anything, but he imposed his will in dramatic and violent fashion on a wide range of people, arguably divided Christendom and European harmony and other things, but it also bizzarely brought peace and stability, all kind of in a weird way in a zealous attachment to his own personal version of what god needed and wanted.

I feel like, Blizzard is sort of returning to it’s roots with Titans, but that’s like the Vikings, it’s one step removed from the Franks. And Elves with Midnight, well I’m sorry but even if Blizzard ever introduced High Elves they would never live up to expectations. High Elves and Tolkien’s ideas are simply not Blizzard’s MO, they expressly made that clear with Blood Elves but also really if you want cool Elves there’s tons of Korean MMOs like Lineage to get an Elven fix that make Elves super cute and are just fine.

But Arthas? He has no precedent really in my opinion in gaming storytelling, he leaned into every instinctively power hungry crazy impulse he ever had and kept going even when the entire world was against him.

In that sense, I’m wondering, can maybe the Menethil’s be like (not Holy Roman this time) but Roman emperors? Madness but possibly for the good or ill?

Now I’m imagining like a new direction for the story after the world souls saga, “The last Menethil” another descendant of Arthas or someone, who takes more after Arthas and not like Callia, who feels his father actually had some totally crazy vision for Azeroth that like got warped or something, or possibly just a victim of circumstance or something, and then he sets up to be the big villain, but in a twist from Wrath the players actually can somehow see his side and it becomes clear there is a true bigger threat than all the titans and old gods and everything else before, and only larger than life humans like Sylvannas and Arthas can stand up to them.

I don’t know, that’s just my idea, I don’t think anyone here will really like it, but the idea of analyzing why Wrath was the most successful expansion in WoW’s history and revisiting it in someway I think would be a better idea than High Elves, or really anything Elven focused in particular.

Not that Elves and Titans are bad, but I don’t know, go as big as you can I think, and in many ways from WC3 all the way to Wrath, the entirety of Warcraft revolved around Arthas, he’s got to still mean something somehow IMO.

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Arthas is dead and should stay that way. They could probably do something with that little wisp he became, make it reform into a weak, frail soul that undergoes penance for its actions, or have him be reincarnated, but I would leave it alone if it were up to me.

Unless you have a really good, satisfying idea, bringing back old characters usually only leads to disappointment.

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I don’t know what expansion you’re playing, but I assure you War Within does not, in fact, focus on Thrall at any point. Not even for the one quest line they bothered actually involving him in.

There’s not really a lot of room to shoehorn anything into Arthas, I think. His singular purpose before Frostmourne was to do anything to save his people/kingdom, which led to incrementally worse decisions that culminated in … well, Frostmourne → Death Knight → Lich King, yada yada. Trying to go back and rewrite motivations that didn’t exist before is generally not a good idea (Hi, Shadowlands, you’re still the worst and it isn’t even close) in fiction.

I’m not opposed to some Menethil related story developments that aren’t Calia being lame and boring as hell (honestly was hoping the supposed Menethil heir Scarlet Crusade propaganda was heading somewhere). That should probably be grounded in Forsaken/Lordaeron stuff though. If we’re looking for someone who wants to cast down the Gods, I think we’ve got Iridikron off somewhere in the background promising just that.

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He is dead and that should stay that way. No need to further butcher his character for no reason.

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arthas was the lamest lich king.
move on, fam.

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Is that why it’s Lich King Arthas on the 20th art and not say either Bolvar or just Ner’zhul? Hell, Ner’zhul was probably the lamest of the three getting betrayed by the patsy he was grooming for years.

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This is just a general look over the iconic characters of Warcraft. Nothing to do with them being good.

I prefer Ner’Zhul, personally, but I don’t think anyone is beating out Bolvar for lamest LK.

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You dont become iconic by being mediocre. Hence the lack of Jailer and the Lich King being prominent.

Bolvar, sacrifices himself and fight to makes sure the Lich King/Jailer presence doesnt do anything evil and for the most part suceeds in holding it back long enough so we managed to deal with it.

As for Ner’zhul, he was the thrice betrayed patsy of the Legion, Jailer and Arthas.

Arthas is dead. SO DEAD, in fact, we see the small remnant of his soul dissipate in front of our eyes in a cutscene. Done and gone, move on.

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Some people can’t. Which explains why blizz milks the lich king imagery as much as they can

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I think 90% of the people who want Alliance High Elves would be happy if they were exact copies of Blood Elves but tagged as High Elves. Those aren’t difficult expectations to meet.

I am playing World of Warcraft. I have no interest in some other game.

Since you bring it up, I am sure there are plenty of other Edgelord grim dark video games with brooding spoiled brats acting like man children for you - and I can enjoy my Elves in Warcraft.

I don’t find characters like Arthas or Garrosh interesting. Shadowlands basically eradicated both their souls, and I think that is a good thing for the story.

Well, your post has something I can agree with.

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So we’re going to ignore that he’s the reason the Scourge was so successful to begin with? The original maker of the Plague of Undeath, the conqueror of the Nerubian Kingdom of Azjol’Nerub and of most of Northrend in general?

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Successful for who? He was a prisoner doing the bidding of the Legion/Jailer. He was as much a puppet of forces beyond his control as any ghoul(I mean if you consider a ghoul “successful” for killing, guess he is as “successful”?) and his hail mary turned out to end being his undoing.

Not only is the “fact he was a puppet” irrelevant; it’s not even true, Ner’zhul successfully broke free of the Legion’s control, and was never under the control of Zovaal – he never controlled so much as one Lich King. And I like how you bring up a ghoul, all the while still ignoring that a ghoul isn’t capable of conquering a continent, spreading the plague of undeath, having a consciousness expanded ten-thousand-fold…

Within the Frozen Throne, the Lich King experimented with his psychic powers and enslaved the local indigenous life forms. The plague of undeath that came from the Frozen Throne transformed each of them into his undead servants. Thus, using his psychic and necromantic powers, he was able to conquer much of Northrend. As he devoured more and more souls, he only grew in power as the individual undead under his control gave him “much needed nourishment”. Thus, his powers began growing at an exponential rate; a fact that the dreadlords were well aware of.

The Lich King entered a war with the kingdom of Azjol-Nerub whose ancient inhabitants were immune to his plague of undeath. The 10-year conflict known as the War of the Spider ultimately ended with the Lich King’s first major triumph (while the nerubians were immune to the plague, their corpses could still be reanimated). The Lich King was impressed by his enemy, however, and adopted nerubian architecture for his own, as a testament to the spider lords’ tenacity and age.

Ner’zhul is the reason the Scourge was even able to get out of Northrend. There is no Scourge without Ner’zhul.

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Honestly, the Lich King (any of them) was so much cooler before they brought in Zovaal.

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The fact that all three lich kings gave a collective middle finger to zooval does make the whole situation hilarious. Dude couldn’t even hijack a being created via domination magic and blizz wanted us to believe zooval was some 64D chess player

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Zerde: the physical manifestation of bad opinions.

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He broke free only to immediately be destroyed by Arthas. That is literally Ner’zhul’s story. Being tricked by one being after another in a string of betrayals.

Factually wrong considering we end up killing whatever remained of Ner’zhul in the Sylvanas raid. He wasnt even important enough to be a true end boss.

Again, another in an near endless string of failures that leads him being someone puppet.

It is not factually wrong, the presence of Ner’zhul in the Sanctum of Domination does not mean he was under the control of Zovaal, hell; even Balnazzar outright states Ner’zhul wasn’t under Zovaal’s control. Also, Ner’zhul’s boss position in the Sanctum of Domination raid is such a non-point it’s hilarious.

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