It feels like the vast majority of the kirin tors ‘political intervention’ is just magical policing. But like… that -is- needed! Nobody who actually looks at the metaphysics of magic in this universe can say it’s not, if they do, they legitimately do not understand the setting LMAO. And if the writers wanna allege that’s wrong, then you better demonize Kalecgos for bringing back the flight whose job that is into activity.
Except that’ll be different because ‘family’ or something.
Well that is the thing, the Kirin Tor was never supposed to be doing that from the get go, there mostly more about magic and research. Yes, they still stop bad things but they got too involved with kingdoms. That is why I call them the jedi because it literally is the same thing.
That is why they needed to go back to their roots, which they are. More about research and protection instead of cozying up with kings and queens.
And yes, Lorderon would have been better. Mostly if they didn’t go to Kel’thuzad “we dont’grant you the title of master” and went anakin on him, he wouldn’t have left.
The Kirin’Tor were always the main thing that led to their own downfall. They created their own enemies. The started with a good idea but became too dogmatic. They became soldiers and politicians than magical researchers.
And yes, DF was when we finally see them actually learning things. Dragons don’t need that because they just inherently know magic and how it works. Mortals do not. Hence why the dragons were more interested in their culture and rebuilding their home than learning about magic.
And without the Kirin’Tor and their “Guardian” there would be no Orcs in Azeroth. Since the first Guardian, that position has been corrupted which eventually ended to an alien and demonic invasion.
Mostly from the novels. Sadly, all the story beats come from the novels. The game mostly won’t tell you squat if it isn’t their handful of main characters.
"Ahahahahahah! I have returned to bring destruction upon your-
…
…rubble."
“Aw, man, now I’ve got to get a new hobby.”
The root of the kirin tor was mages seeking freedom and more agency in the empire of Strom to study and -use- magic. This caused them to abuse magic and accidentally tear open rifts into the nether, allowing Kathra’natir into reality. Policing magic is vital to magic. It is responsible for the people who study and disseminate magical knowledge into the world to try to stop the innate corruption of power and the way it draws in corruptive powers like demons. That’s why this decision feels so silly in the grand scheme of things.
The Kirin Tor did not make the Scourge, Xal’atath or made Malygos go crazy or any of their big threats besides rogue mages who they kicked out for doing the evil magic to begin with. They had never stopped being scholars. They had a responsibility, and often regardless of politics were simply targeted by the nature of being mages and having power, like with Malygos.
He was not denied his abilities as an Archmage. he was a megalomaniac who wanted to use necromancy and considered himself above his peers. Go look at Warcraft wiki’s section called Call of the Lich King.
It makes no sense in the context of this universe for policing magic that they ultimately are causing to get spread out into the world to be viewed even remotely negatively. It’s being responsible for what you create.
And such things lead to a corrupt institution. I might just be different but I always viewed the Kirin Tor as suspicious
No, but their actions directly led to them being created.
He just wanted to learn more about necromacy. Dude hated rising corpses of humans and elves so he stuck with rats. But when he got kicked out, that was the first step to him going cult of the damned.
“Upon hearing the powerful summons from Northrend, the archmage bent all of his considerable will to communing with the mysterious voice. Convinced that the Kirin Tor was too squeamish to seize the power and knowledge inherent in the dark arts, he vowed to learn what he could from the immensely powerful being named the Lich King.”
Yes, surely this guy was never going to move on from desecrating rat corpses to desecrating elf and human corpses.
Yeah, that was after they kicked him out. He went full on Reed Richards to The Maker.
So you’re telling me you think letting him practice necromancy was going to make him resist the lich king’s summons and offer of power when he clearly was power obsessed to begin with.
Come on. That’s silly. Necromancy is not okay. “I wouldn’t have been evil if you let me defile corpses” is not a viable defense LMAO this wasnt even POLITICS to begin with, it was ‘no, dont do evil things’
No, him studying necromancy was him learning more about the art, which the Kirin Tor could have used in the future. Again, it was about the study of magic.
Necromancy is not okay. “I wouldn’t have been evil if you let me defile corpses” is not a viable defense LMAO this wasnt even POLITICS to begin with, it was ‘no, dont do evil things’
See, now that is why the Kirin Tor lost. That type of mindset. Look who saved Azeroth in the end. Warlocks, void beings, Mages, Evokers, shamans, Demon Hunters and Death Knights.
They needed more than just the Kirin Tor because the Kirin Tor didn’t have the knowledge needed because they didn’t study darker elements of magic to understand it.
Study of magic itself is not evil. Understanding dark magic is not evil.
Amusingly, the two clear examples of Dalaran doing an oopsie both involved the Blood Elves (imprisoning Kael’Thas and The Purge). Both of those were conspicuously unmentioned.
Nah, blood elves deserve all the wrongs in their life.
Im going to exclude every single thing on this list that has nothing to do with it. Warlocks are power obsessed and save things to save themselves, they’re not what the kirin tor should aspire to be. Void Beings are basically always repelled, it’s at most shadow users fighting void entities like Xal’atath lmao. Demon Hunters are nutjobs whi also do crap like making portals to argus in the sky, WHICH HAD TONS OF SPACESHIPS FLYING INTO AZEROTH FROM ORBIT IN THE SKYBOX which the lore has to ignore because otherwise Illidan would’ve just caused world-wide slaughter on a scale unseen since the War of the Ancients. And Death Knights who pretty openly think of themselves as evil, just necessary to kill other evils.
Idk, by that logic, they should just mana bomb every issue that ever happens lmao, because power in all forms is just okay UNLESS it’s political???
The Kirin Tor evolved from studying magic exclusively because they knew magic as Arcane magic and the refinement of their purpose is the natural result of expansive knowledge.
Kel’thuzad did not just want to study it. He was blatantly power obsessed. It’s not like he told the Lich King "Nah i dont want power i just wanna understand dark magic"HE WANTED TO USE IT. Learning is all well and good, but you innately cause the dissemination of destructive powers into the world, and the truly responsible with power would try to ensure what they unleash to the world is not just used to make the world worse. Which is what the Kirin Tor would do if they became completely apolitical an just sat on their hands never doing anything.
Happened after he was kicked out.
Learning is all well and good, but you innately cause the dissemination of destructive powers into the world, and the truly responsible with power would try to ensure what they unleash to the world is not just used to make the world worse.
No, you learn about the destructive power to know how to fight against it when someone else uses it. You don’t learn about fire and how it spreads without starting some and watching how it moves.
Which is what the Kirin Tor would do if they became completely apolitical an just sat on their hands never doing anything.
No, they did something far worse, they kicked him out because they were afraid, which led him down the path that eventually led him to the Lich King.
Now I know why you love the Kirin Tor so much, you love the dogmatic nature of things because of fear.
I don’t like the edgy, cynical insistence that everything is permissible because of experimentation and ‘knowledge’ or acting like a guy who was manipulated by his desire for power was actually the good guy and the kirin tor bear more responsibility for him wanting to wipe out life than he himself does as if he’s just a misunderstood innocent guy lmao…
It is pure delusion to ignore these things, or these parts of the other entities you mentioned who saved the world, WHO ALSO CAUSE PROBLEMS.
Nothing edgy about wanting to learn and study. It is pure delusion that the Kirin Tor didn’t lead to the falling out.
Also of course we cause problems, but we don’t pretend to be better. I know what I’m about, power. Kirin Tor is supposed to be the pure study of magic and understanding. They became elite scholars who feared the unknown. Not very adventurous in my books.
I am still waiting on an answer from the “WHAT ABOUT THE PURGE?” crowd on this.
Most of Garrosh and his cronies are dead. What else are you looking for?
He wanted to study necromancy because he saw Orc Death Knights. He was a power obsessed nutjob who would’ve become evil ANYWAYS because he already wanted to go follow the voice calling him to the north, and it’s not until he was kicked out that he fully decided ‘screw it, i’ll go up alone’ lmao.
The Kirin Tor existed for like 3,000 years. If everyone was who they were 3,000 years ago and didn’t adapt their purpose to the reality that knowledge displayed to them, nothing would progress and everything would stagnate. Change is a natural response to stimulus. Scholars are constantly discovering new things. They are constantly the stimulus to their own change and development as an organization by learning more and more.
Even the HIGHBORNE, who you compared to the Sith, were against magic like shadow, and really only for fel because of demonic manipulation and their own obsession with power. If EVEN THE HIGHBORNE think something is problematic, that tells you the issue. I don’t need to shoot a gun to understand the mechanics of it, i don’t need to consort with demons to understand a healthy amount about fel, I do not need to animate the dead to know enough about death magic to counter it.
Most of the people behind it are dead. Idk why Shokia isn’t tbh lmao should’ve gone on trial after she showed up in the Orc story. But like… idk, what about it? It was an extreme response from the Kirin Tor but they did at least have a point for kicking them OUT and it also just seems like an internally inconsistent event even as blizzard where different people wanted different things.
The divine bell incident is a perfect justification for the kirin tor saying ‘get out of my city, we’re not a staging ground for espionage’ and maybe the arrest of some leaders. Just not a slaughter.
Okay, I am done with this. We will not see eye to eye with this. Yeah, seeing orc death knights and wondering how they did it is the first thing the Kirin Tor should have studied but that is just me.
The Kirin Tor existed for like 3,000 years. If everyone was who they were 3,000 years ago and didn’t adapt their purpose to the reality that knowledge displayed to them, nothing would progress and everything would stagnate.
They kinda were. Like I said, they are the jedi. Jedi order stood for 10k years and hardly ever went far into the study of the force.