Well I was not expecting this, but a lot of the things said here Nobbel87 was actually mentioning in his lore video as he did the quest… Of all the Youtubers I thought he be the most chill about this new story bit.
h ttps://youtu.be/bZiMDlVNdEc?si=Pl7GyPEdT4-D8Je0
I guess a lot of you guys have a point that others in the social media circles agree, interesting! I thought this was just another day at the WoW forums, didn’t think these options where share outside here or my circle of friends.
I’m being genuine here, thanks, I would have believed the wrong thing.
Yeah, it’s something a lot of us story-focused people are gonna be noticing.
Purge stuff aside (like I said earlier, not trying to dredge up faction gunk), the destruction of Dalaran left a lot of questions unanswered. And I think most of us asking those questions would have liked some kind of answer instead of “wait, another mana bomb? KT rehash again? Whyyyyy…”
It’s even more strange the Pillars didn’t get a single mention, since two apocalypses ago, they were the single big thing that was gonna save us, and unlike most other anti-apocalypse doohickies, these ones are not spent or broken. You’d think with her broken heart, Xal’atath might be looking for those potent titan relics to fix it, or just add to her collection.
The Pillars of Creation were used to seal the Tomb of Seagaras. They’re in the tomb, I’d presume.
Yeah, people on these forums are not media literate and will complain more than anything.
It is equally weird the Forge of the Guardian did not get mentioned, nor the soulstone we stuffed Kathra’natir into
…which if broken would mean the Dreadlord should be free to cause absolute havoc to fully kill the Kiran Tor off as has been his goal for a long time.
Nope. The final Exploring Azeroth book refrences the Pillars are all back in Dalaran in the Chamber of the Guardian… So they should be at the bottom of the Sea.
I am sure no naga related issues can come of this.
They were brought back to Dalaran. That’s where the naga stole the tidestone thingy from.
Well, the other possibility is that the Pillars are going to show up again in the story, which is why blizz has done nothing with them at the moment or made mention of them.
It is a three part saga after all, which I think we’re all forgetting or tend to forget when talking about the current expansion(s)
I’m sure they probably will, but that only means that right now is a great time to remind players they exist.
We’re not typical average players. We can casually discuss lore from TBC like it was yesterday. Most people don’t remember the relatively lesser plot points from four expansions ago unless you remind them, even just a little bit.
Eh, it just bugs me.
It would of been nice for them to at least of said “A number of powerful relics such as the pillars of creation remain unaccounted for despite our best efforts—They are a priority that we will keep investigating.”
When they didn’t at least off hand mention it, I get slightly uncharitable feelings they straight up forgot.
Probably safe to assume Xal took her choice of items, even if they haven’t drawn attention to it. Or it should be, but they probably just overlooked a bunch of stuff.
I question why the idea was to do this to wizards who gathered in the city to begin with because they wanted more freedom and a place among peers lol. Like… nothing really innate to the system of the kirin tor wasn’t working. It’s not like the old republic where the Jedi’s flaws actually were an overt issue.
The closest thing is their immediate acceptance of a guy who vanished during the last destruction of the city and only now suddenly came back. And to be completely honest, it felt kind of quick and forced even there lmao. I just dunno what about the kirin tor needed to change narratively unless the goal is to just not have a big active mage order in the world.
WoW devs i think enjoy the trope of ‘change’ but very often you end up with stuff like this where there’s no purpose behind it and there’s nothing in the greater narrative to back it up. They’re better than like -any- Highborne about responsibility with magic. At worst you can say they went too far and outlawed magic like necromancy and fel but that randomly got ignored anyways when it was convenient to blizz to put content in the city lmao.
Most likely because that mention of the pillars being in dalaran and not the tomb of sargeras was nothing more than an oversight akin to Zekhan thinking the dark portal was in Azshara 10,000 years ago lmao. Given most lore until that book in-game, such as Magni’s dialogue, said it was in the Tomb of Sargeras until that book which came out -after- TWW even launched… idk, probably not referenced because it was another slip up in a series of books full of lore slip ups.
Current team is swimming in themes of deconstructionism. I suspect there is some lingering resentment that attaches a lot of existing content/lore to problematic people in the old guard, but there is no way to really substantiate that.
SHL’s Kael took way too many cues from TBC’s Kael. It’s like they forgot the guy wasn’t a megalomaniac until after rotting his brain with the fel.
I’d have been content with as little as some shoreside RP between Aethas and Jaina after the send-off. There was even setup for it via that music box he bought her off the trading post.
It’s just inconceivable to me that a quest writer could have these two characters reflect on the moral failures and tainted legacy of the Kirin Tor and memory hole the population purge one of them carried out against the other.
Yeah, I’m not sure why both KTs got generic wiki boilerplate characterizations but Uther was pretty much spot on. It is even the same VA in Kel’Thuzad’s case.
Deconstruction can be fine narratively too, but a lot of the time the only justifications for it are forced and don’t make sense by in universe logic, but rather by ‘dev said so, dont question it’ logic tbh. Which is a lot easier to give to a setting that operates stories off largely consistent things… whereas WoW literally has a piece of media that conflated like 3 different demonic wars into all being the same thing somehow despite being 10,000 years apart, on different ends of the world, and involving different races lmao.
Deconstruction without a message reflected in the greater history and only found in one story as it happens is just kind of lazy. But i’d argue it’s not really new, feels very on brand for the team that wrote Amirdrassil and didn’t really stop to reflect on a naturalistic peoples connection to their homeland despite it being so powerful they remain behind to serve it in death lmao. Which I think is on track with ignoring the purge of Dalaran too. If pivotal, core things are inconvenient to the story they want to tell, they seem quick to ignore the integrity of the setting and just throw memory of major things out the window. Which is why despite their intentions of ‘renewal’ and ‘rebuilding’ it never genuinely feels optimistic. It feels kind of cynical and dishonest.
I instantly kind of soured to that story the moment they tried to say Kael’thas never cared about his people.
Broadly speaking, I worry at the notion that demolishing the very things that players are here for is the actual mission statement. While I am personally hoping for the Kirin Tor to serve a diminished capacity in the game, I can’t say I don’t believe they will continue using the same handful of Kirin Tor NPCs every time magic stuff comes up.
I Mean, so were the Kirin’ Tor. They were way too focused into other nations politics instead of magic. For me, I picked the jedi order because I always viewed the Kirin Tor as the jedi. Good idea but flawed by rules, regulations and dogma than actual wanting to learn about magic.
It became more about power than about truth.
The highborn acted more like the Old republic sith, not the warriors or the power hungry ones but the nobles who just had as little power to lord over others.
Personally, I would like it if they didn’t need to destroy organizations to simply show that other alternatives exist. The KirinTor i can at least see the reasoning behind because of how present they are in WoW consistently, more than even like the Cenarion Circle (least like after Cata, they were around for Vanilla, TBC, a joke faction in Wotlk and Cata) or Earthen Ring, and they are pretty human dominant. I think a reconstruction period for them can be interesting too, there were some cool ideas in Vanilla regarding them that never really went anywhere.
I just don’t really buy that it became about power because of what WoW has actively shown us of the Kirin Tor’s main figures completely opposed to that. Khadgar denied taking greater power because of the corruption innate to that kind of power with no ‘tax’ in the Harbingers video. They kept a lot of magical items contained and locked away and are rarely, if like ever really shown using them. They don’t use the eye of Dalaran selfishly in any history, it was stolen from them and used for dark rituals. They don’t use dark creatures, they lock them away. They go to places like the Dragon Isles and spend all of their time studying, lecturing, and researching, compared to the dragons ACTUALLY MAKING AN EMPIRE AGAIN lol.
So they certainly arent in it for blind power in a magical sense. And politically, it’s short bursts of activity, but usually because they interfere with things that actually are worldly and significant. Is it wrong to go to war with the blue dragons for what they did, wouldn’t mages around the world have been much worse off without the Kirin Tor around to be an active force alongside the Red flight to fight that? Would Lordaeron have been any better if wizards just stuck to themselves and didn’t even bother trying quarantine? Would the orcs have been better off if the Kirin Tor hadn’t proposed trying to find a cure for their corruption to the rest of the Alliance? The only time they seem to go further than things like that is with the purge of Dalaran and Jaina in MoP, and it was already kind of shown in Legion when everyone voted against her that they aren’t all for that anyways?
If they were about power, more stories needed to be about the kirin tor internally being okay with it. Not about them kicking out people like kel’thuzad, banning fel magic and it’s corruption, holding creatures of dark magic to protect the world not to study them, kicking out the one person who convinced them to go into a faction war when they had also kind of been dragged into it anyways by being used as a staging ground for theft… it does not feel like most kirin tor supports this quick decision to decentralize and avoid politics. Frankly it’d be funny to have an NPC just point out that these mages are not self aware enough to realize they’ll naturally recreate all of them simply by how mages act lmao.
Like of course a hierarchy is gonna form. Even Druidic circles have that. Having influence is inevitable, if -anything- it just means Jaina and Khadgar wont have like 5 other people to offset their voices now lmao. Of course mages are going to want a space to themselves among peers to study and share ideas and govern themselves with freedom. And OF COURSE people with power, good or bad, will want to influence the world, which is really what all of the politics the Kirin Tor had been involved with was. Policing unsafe practice of magic (which is totally needed) and getting involved in things that frankly did need involvement.
This isn’t directed at you specifically, it’s just my general frustration with this whole “tell, don’t show” style of storytelling that plagues the edges of the game.
I really just do not get this. From the end of WCIII up until Dalaran fell down went boom, there is only exactly one time we’re shown Dalaran getting involved in any nationalistic business.
Excluding the time Jaina walked into Dalaran and said “this is mine now, okay? And it belongs to the Alliance, because I said it does!!” and when she was all “Khadgar said we’re neutral now?!? Well, I don’t even want a Dalaran anyway!!!” Outside of that, Dalaran has gone out of their way to avoid anything like national politics.
When Cata was going on and the Horde and Alliance were getting aggro at each other? Dalaran was staying off to the side. When the 4th War was going on, Khadgar said Dalaran’s staying out of it all. In the aftermath? Still stayed out of everyone else’s business.
Where is this idea that Dalaran was getting too involved in politics even coming from?
This isn’t directed at you specifically, it’s just my general frustration with this whole “tell, don’t show” style of storytelling that plagues the edges of the game. I put this here twice to avoid confusion.