But you are at least right, as of now it does seems like Saurfang’s soul fully went through the soul processing treatment. I was generally OK with the idea that he’d be suffering the same torture as those he was manipulated into sending to the Maw, but it is a tad bit disappointing we don’t ultimately get to “save” at least him. If nothing else, on a thematic level, its hard not to see it as the Man who argued that the Horde had worth (and could perhaps one day be worth the honor he himself recognized he was never worthy of) is now a Warrior BiS (and future vendor trash). While the woman who argued we were nothing, and who the entire faction was turned into a tool and plot-device for her to settup SLs, is getting seriously primed for some outs.
We all kind of expected it. But they are truly putting far FAR more work “redeeming/rebuilding” her (and prepping far more “outs” for her nonsense) than they would ever consider putting into the Horde they destroyed as a plot-device for her. Which all kind of reinforces Sylvanas’ last words as the Hill the Blizz writing team seems to want to die on. “The Horde is Nothing”. And like Baine, our “Best” and “Heart”, we’re just a “worthless plot device who’s own characterization needs are always thrown aside for the stories needs to use us. And who’s only value can be found in the value some Alliance character finds in us”.
Just like I was disappointed about not being able to save the Night Elf souls.
Yea, and then when she’s redeemed, they’ll have her return to the Horde again, ruin the faction even more, and guess who’ll be getting all the spotlight again?
Yup, or the Night Elves. Or the Alliance that look like weak, incompetent fools now.
They basically ruined everything just for Sylvanas.
PS: I’m willing to die on the hills that I know I’m right about.
That we can agree on. They even ruined Sylvanas for many Sylvie fans. Though it should be argued she at least had traits that ensured she always had the capacity to go down the type of route they took her on. While I don’t really agree with your conclusion (by the sounds of it, we are at least destroying her physical body, so it seems very unlikely she will be leaving the SLs with us) … I think we both agree. “Writers Pets SUCK”. Both Anduin and Sylvanas are so clearly writers pets its staggering, and truly they writers seems to have given up all attempts to even hide that at this point.
Justice will still come, just not at Tyrande’s hand. That’s the point of all of this. Tyrande actually grows a braincell and realizes that nobody cares who kills Sylvanas as long as she’s dead.
She won’t be though, she’s getting a pass, and return to the Horde as if nothing happened.
She’s even getting a 300 page book about how genocide actually isn’t that bad and how she was right in commiting it. Tyrande giving up on justice and the countless writer comments about how Sylvanas isn’t even bad or how she will get a redemption should be enough.
Genocide and torturing children into oblivion is fine if Sylvanas does it. I miss the days when Arthas’ actions in Quel’thalas were evil, now an exact parallel is fine just because Sylvanas did it. Not to mention what she did to all the souls.
Don’t even think about how Tyrande would react to Sylvanas’ death when it’s impossible for her to be brought to justice in the first place. It can never happen with these writers.
Uh… that is certainly… a take. That book honestly seems more like an obituary and/or the kind of biography you put out once someone is going to be at the least put in the freezer for a long time. It is one last Ode to Sylvanas to set the record straight at the very end of it all.
They would not be making a biographical story of Sylvanas specifically they might have to risk retconning if they were not going to be taking her off the playing field.
I’ll gladly agree to disagree, because it’s obvious that Sylvanas is getting a pass, and since the writers have tried to downplay Teldrassil repeatedly (especially seen with Tyrande giving up on justice etc…), the 300 page book will just rewrite everything evil she did and somehow portray them as justified. You’ll soon see anyway, I’m somehow always spot on with these.
The book is just about the story of Sylvanas. What is your deal with these pre-conceived storylines? You know you’re being pointlessly melodramatic. So… why?
I’m just telling you what’s going to happen, because I’m sorry to say it but if you believe that Sylvanas isn’t getting a pass on absolutely everything you’re just foolish.
Okay so show me the evidence. Show me where Sylvanas is going to get a pass on genocide and turning the Horde against itself. Show me where she’ll just return like nothing happened.
Tyrande gave up on vengeance because she wants to focus on renewal and give Sylvanas the metaphorical middle finger by showing that what Sylvanas did ultimately meant nothing because the Night Elves will just bounce right back. They will not forgive her. They will just prove her wrong.
Before you say that their numbers are too few, do you realize how stupid that is? Do you seriously think Blizzard would just let one of the core races of the game just die out? Of course you think that why did I ask.
The Night Elves are numerous enough to where they were able to amount an army at Darkshore. If that’s the case, they can absolutely rebuild their home, and that’s what Tyrande said they would do.
Sylvanas has doubts about the Jailer. This much is true. That doesn’t mean she’ll be redeemed. The Horde and Alliance both hate her. Jaina and Thrall are physically there in the fight, and they’re essentially the stand-in leaders of their respective factions. They won’t let her back in. Especially someone like Thrall who saw her murder his closest friend.
You have invented this baseless headcanon that you hate, and are now somehow surprised you hate it.
That is because their army was never hit. I mean, the situation between undeads and nightelf is entire different.
The nightelf have still their powerfull army but miss their citizens, many of them died
The forsaken have still their citizen but lack almost their entire army, many of them died
Just wait? I mean you’ll see it after Shadowlands if all the writers statements, the 300 page book about glorifying genocide, Tyrande giving up on justice aren’t enough.
It will be hard to bounce back from being literally obliterated. Erased from existence.
fixed that for you, because it’s literally in the story.
And then still failed to reclaim it until like the pre patch, thus they never got Ashenvale.
Oh no she won’t need a redemption, she has the entire writing team on her side and the game is “World of Sylvanas” now. If you don’t agree with Sylvanas you’re wrong, see Tyrande. Or well, that’s how they portrayed it.
The Horde’s only reason to hate her is her saying that they’re nothing. They loved what she did as warchief.
It doesn’t matter since the writing doesn’t have to make sense. The writers will have her return to the Horde and give her a pass on genocide. Perhaps even rewrite her history in the book to make her seem not evil.
I’ll just let you wait and see. Because I’m 100% convinced of it and I know that it will happen with these writers, they’re awfully predictable.
Edit: I’m not set on the return to the Horde part, either it’s that or she just becomes our supreme mary sue and a neutral hero for both Horde and Alliance.
Sylvannas loyalists are horde minority. Real horde (Kalimdor and WC3) are completely fine with losing anything related to the forsaken as they have never fully fit.
Okay so you’re proving me right. This is literally just your own headcanon and there is nothing to back this up.
Show me where. Because last I checked you’re a Night Elf. Definitely not wiped out.
Actually if you read the mission table quest text, you’d know that Ashenvale was never fully taken over. It only remained contested. As it was before.
Literally everyone is against her. I asked you to show how Sylvanas has ever been portrayed as “in the right.” In regards to her plans with the Jailer. You have yet to show me.
They really didn’t. That’s why there was a Civil War. She murdered her own troops at Lordaeron, set Baine up for an execution, tried to murder Thrall’s family, killed Saurfang, beat Eitrigg on the streets of Orgrimmar, made a pact with Azshara and tried to murder the entire Zandalari fleet along with Thalyssra, Lor’themar, and the player character. I could really go on. She’s the villain and it’s obvious.
Fixed that.
The only thing they’re setting up, if anything, is Sylvanas’ atonement in death after Shadowlands. We know the Arbiter dies at the end of this raid, and we know that Sylvanas will likely die too since the loot table includes:
Saurfang’s soul
Her bow
Her quiver
Her shoulderpads
The Jailer is going to abandon her, because he’s gotten everything he needs. If we’re getting this much stuff from Sylvanas, she’s likely now a soul outside of her body. There’s no way the covenants would let her walk around freely knowing what she’s done.
Uther contributed to the forsworn which worked directly for the jailor and to unseat bastion. No reason once Sylvannas’s soul pieces together again that they can’t write some equally dumb nonsense for her.
As it stands, my opinion is the arbiter is going to send her to bastion because in life, all she did was live to serve and protect. Kyrians will take away the memories that cause her pain and she will be put into gameplay limbo and taken from the story for a while.
Alliance get satisfaction that they beat her. Sylvannas fans get to see her “redeemed”.
Horde fans that hate her get her removed from the horde.
I dunno, I always found the “Forsaken” conceptually interesting, and think there are some very cool directions they could go with them as a people now that Sylvie is gone. Directions that could help them come to truly embody the WC3 Horde ideas in their own way; just as the BEs have come to more or less done since their introduction. If Blizz truly embraces the Dual-Identity theme expressed in BtS and builds up a Twin-Leader dynamic that positively reflects and supports both sides of that identity (and the spectrum in between) … they could really shine. Being Forsaken, Citizens of Lordaeron, and Horde in their own way.
The twin leads of liek Voss+Calia, combined with them getting back to basics and being allowed and find/nurse Scourge members back to mental health after Zovaal’s influence is truly gone … would be one very noble way for them to stabilize and even grow their populations. Add in a bit of “Undeath for those that just want a little more time” like Zelling had, and maybe learning a few things from the Primus and Maldraxxus on how to improve their quality of life … there is some real neat stories here. Now that they aren’t just an expendable tool for a cult of personality nihilist. TBH, Sylvie (and Wix tbh) being out of the Horde doesn’t bother me too much. But a part of me would feel we lost something if the Forsaken as a whole were lost. They have great potential as a people, and don’t even need to adjust too much of themselves to get there.
Because Uther, even with a split soul, doubted the Forsworn from the very beginning. Devos had to goad him and dig deep into his past in order to bring out the worst in him. The moment Devos was out of the picture he could see the truth. Uther was capable of rational thoughts even with his soul unstable. Sylvanas is too. Her soul being put together again won’t redeem her of what she’s done, rather, it’ll make her character realize what she has done.
The Arbiter can’t send her anywhere if she’s dead and no longer has her power source which Zovaal will take from her.
The best course of action is to leave her on an ambiguous “atonement” under the Eternal Ones. So while she is now 100% dead, her soul is left to figure out her future from here.
I dunno, the rest of the horde is basically down in the muck with them at this point. It’d seem really hypocritical to ostracize them from the faction when almost everyone was going along with Sylvanas just on her word as warchief.