That was my point though. Because if Gollum didn’t succumb to his own corruption, Frodo would have. Then the entire mission would be a failure, the cylce would start anew and Saron would of won by default.
nooooooo how dare the villain of the story have character motivations and not just be a random lolevil cartoon character nooooooo
I dunno when you became a cool zombie but I dig it.
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I love the goggles Valko. Keep being a cool little gnome 
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Short answer: No.
This is a case of: ‘We are all heroes of our own story.’
Sylvanas is mad at her lot. She is angry about both what was unfairly done to her as well as the costs of her own choices. She wants to wipe it all out because of that anger. She isn’t really about making things better as is evident by the callous actions she has taken. But, she justifies it in her own mind so she can still think of herself as the hero.
In the story she tells, she is the hero. For basically everyone else, she is very much the villain.
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The Night Elves do have a pretty bloody history, from their inception to the Sundering. And even after the Sundering, they had Northern Kalimdor pretty locked down.
Central Kalimdor was pretty contested between Tauren, Quillboar, Harpies, and Centaur, and that’s not counting all the wildlife scattered around. There’s a conspicuous lack of intelligent races north of the Barrens though, aside from the “old allies” in the Furbolg and mutated Night Elf outcasts.
It isn’t explicit, but the Night Elves not having “exterminated” anyone after retaining uncontested control of a third of a continent for 10,000 years is fishy at best, if not unnerving.
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She has only killed fodder in the maw and the only one that rescued people was the PC.
Tyrande could easily be turned into a weapon if captured like this:
https://youtu.be/lS2EHM5sadU?t=47
and decimate all her people she fough for and then desintegrated into nothingness. Actually when you think about it all her arc is filler because only consist in a power up that hasn’t done really much and her allies spent most of that arc finding ways to take away that power
Fixed
Honestly I wonder how she can be this dumb and just now realise the Jailer is not better than Arthas, then again the Jailer sways people under his influence the same Sylvanas did in BFA and that’s likely because the writers can’t think in compelling ways to make people follow x guy and just go with 80-90s movies one lines
Old gods influence persist even after death and the stags says they got help from adventures of their world. Besides Tyrande has done literally nothing with that power, it wasn’t even necessary to take down Nathanos(well maybe she does as Danuser use Nathan as his avatar)
Furbols at every mission/quest. Trolls Amani during the Troll Wars(Even Shandris participated on those) and Murlocs village when Fandral send a group to Silithus to colonise it and woke up accidentally the sleeping Aquir in there.
Besides there will always be elves as the plot demands it and Hyjal, Darkshore are back to them. If they go full resurrection, then bring everyone back and everyone is happy. Win-Win scenario
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https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall
edit: it sucks but it doesnt sucks that much as a motive or backstory what sucks is the timing imo.
I didn’t quote all of it but I agree with your analysis. Watching this, I had actually forgotten about the events of Edge of Night. That’s gives this correct context. She wants a redo and will sacrifice anyone to get it. She’s absolutely got a right to be mad but she’s gone beyond making that right. Now she’s just damnimg everyone else.
Who doesn’t? That does not equal that they are guilty of exterminating other races.
That entire are was already under Night Elf control prior to the Sundering. The Trolls weren’t even there prior to the rise of the Kaldorei Empire.
You mean the ones that were driven mad by the fel and had to be put down?
Even if she did, the death of Amani belongs in the hands of the Blood Elves that invaded their lands. That conflict stated and probably lasted beyond what ever the nelves involvement was. And wasn’t Shandris’ involvement a part of her affiliation with The Hidden Path? So now you’re trying to add blame to the Night Elves when hardly any of them were involved. Really…
Desert merlocs huh.
You would have been better off saying the Satyrs after the War of the Satyr, at least that happened. You made a statement that you couldn’t back up and now you’re reaching.
And yet because of the power they won the war.
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Haven’t they done this before?
Its just not consistent.
The way they are changing the story and character motivations it really comes across as last minute rewrites.
If Sylvanas was consistent then no one would question these motivations.
It seems these motivations change with every new source they release to us.
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I think ‘good’ is a stretch. Her little soliloquy read more like, “I don’t like that I don’t get a choice so now nobody gets to have a good time.”
It rings a bit hollow considering the thousands of souls she siphoned into the Maw didn’t get this ‘choice’ or ‘free will’ she’s blahblah’ing about. It also is a little hard to get behind this freedom fighter Sylvanas theme when barely anyone in the Shadowlands is mad about where they ended up in the afterlife. (Forsworn aside, and they’re more against the loss of their memories than actually becoming Kyrian.)
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Very very few of even the worst people did not see a hero when they looked into the mirror.
What Sylvannas looking for in Anduin isn’t redemption, but validation of the choices she’s made.
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People have been getting mad about Sylvanas’ every act since, like, Wrath. Trust me, I was there, and one of them.
Any dream of a coherent character is already dead with BTS and BFA. She has like 4 different characterizations in those and all of them are inconsistent with prior work and also eachother.
If Shadowlands is her last hurrah, and maybe it is idk, I’d rather she go out as something vaguely resembling what she used to be rather than BFA’s abomination of writing.
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But Shandris was helping them in that war with a group of Sentinels and I doubt she does anything that Tyrande doesn’t authorize which honestly makes it more sad and ironic the people they helped later went on to genocide the nelves.
Nope, she says she fought with sentinels on the war campaign and let’s not mention how she and wyrmbane forget to bring supplies on Vol’dun and their action for this was to kill and steal from Zandalaris exiles which is cruel and would be a war crime(and most weren’t criminals thanks to a Jakra’ze)
But even if we go with the Hidden Path blame only, that only makes it slightly worst as this was nelf centric organization which tells how the average nelf values the life of others.
But aren’t you doing the same with backing Tyrande and Shandris wish to strike back to the Horde later as in previous book says it?
Don’t go on this route because nobody wins and right now your aim should be Sylvanas not getting a redemption arc rather than persecute a ghost about “punishing the horde” as elves aren’t saints either.
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Explain, please. I don’t see how you can separate the two things.
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I never really bought that though. Like Arthas was in control of the Scourge, who had made the flesh titan Thaddius by then.
Other flesh titans are made out of dead giants. Thaddius is specified to be made out of innocent dead women and children. Once you’ve created a Frankstein’s monster large enough to punch Godzilla exclusively out of dead children and their mothers, I kinda don’t believe you’ve any good left in you.
Slyvanas likewise bombed Teldrassil and orchestrated a massive world war. Knowing full well everyone killed would go to hell to be turned into swords for Goth Mr.Clean.
I just don’t buy a “Actually my motivations were complicated” at that point.
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You need to back this up. All we know is that Shandris worked with Areiel and she says that she has fought in every war, which very well could have been in conjunction with The Hidden Path. We also know she friendly with Alleria, another member of that same organization, and that’s could be how they meet and how Shandris and maybe some others were involved. But that’s speculation and what we know as lore fact is that the High Elves wiped out the Amani Trolls and continued to kill them after the war.
A completely different tribe of trolls from a completely different part if the continent. You can’t even keep your own theories straight.
And this equals an extermination? 
So you’re just going to over look the Tauren huh?
No. I NEVER said they should hunt down and kill the all of the horde. What I said and what you replied was…
And she’s not wrong about them. They are responsible and that can’t be trusted to keep the peace after they’ve destroyed 3 cities and committed genocide.
Furthermore, YOU are the one that said
and you haven’t even come close to proving that the Kaldorei exterminated anyone. All you’ve done is poorly point out issues where they did kill someone and trying to shift the blame of other races on to them.
You may want to go look up the definition of extermination, because based on what you’ve said so far, your interpretation is incorrect.
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Its probably more like even Sylvanas struggles to commit herself to snuff out the incorruptible pure goodness that is Anduin
Which, btw, massive props to Anduin for growing a pair and calling her out on her bs
Also im back, just got shadowlands today- looking forward to getting SL transmog pieces.
I mean, i personally just want her out of my hair forever as soon as possible so i can but BFA behind me and forget about it.
Schadenfreude would be welcome, but honestly at this point i dont care how it happens so long as it does
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The only in-game mention of the Hidden Path is that Rexxar relates how he quit the organization to engage in “more interesting hunting” with the Horde in the Fourth War.
Villainbatting the Horde is annoying, but if it’s only done once without BFA, then from an objective viewpoint I can accept it. I’d say the same thing were it the Alliance.
A faction playing the part of the “villain” for a period does not make or break a story, personal investment or no.
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I cannot agree with you there. Even if it only happens once—especially if it only happens once—it’s a problem to do it to one side and not the other.
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