So... she's good?

[Kaileena-the-scryers (Kaileena)]

Yeah I’m late, but I just watched the final Torghast scene with Sylvanas and Anduin. So she’s trying to save everyone? What a crock of horse crap! So what, Sylvanas is Morphus trying to free us all from the Matrix?

Even if it is true, in this case the ends don’t justify the means. How many of those is she trying to save are getting unjustly thrown into the maw for all of eternity? I feel this more about her wanting a redo of her encounter with Arthas. What happened was absolutely awful but untold numbers of people are now paying for this.

Whether her plan succeeds or fails, Sylvanas has to die. They’ve taken the character over the edge and it’s too late to come back now. It shouldn’t be a self or heroic sacrifice either, because that’s not who she is. Her death should be brutal and final. I don’t even want to get into hope they’ve turned this character on a dime twice now, she just needs go, it’s time.

[Skarm-sentinels (Skarm)]

She’s delusional.

Thanos also thought he was the hero of the story, being able to ‘see the big picture’, and ‘make the hard, necessary sacrifices’. Most villains do. It’s at the very least more interesting than just going “MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I’M EEEVIL AND DOING EVERYTHING I DO OUT OF POINTLESS SADISM!” The devs probably just remembered “Oh yea, didn’t we say that there was going to be Moral Greyness in there somewhere?” and added it in a day late and a dollar short.

[Portergauge-moon-guard (Portergauge)]

@Kaileena-the-scryers

in this case the ends don’t justify the means.

The cinematic pretty clearly agrees with this, including starting to show that Sylvanas herself no longer believes that they do. I don’t know why people are so up in arms about a cinematic pretty much entirely dedicated to “Sylvanas is doing evil and terrible things, and she’s starting to realize that despite her good intentions”.

Thinking she should just die unceremoniously is both delusional, and an irrational desire for the story.

[Breakcog-proudmoore (Breakcog)]

Sylvanas has an odd concept stuck to her character that’s been there for a long time as to whether you decide to follow her or you’re forced to follow her-- which went really crazy in BfA when the Fallen night elves can chose but Daelin and the Desolate council cannot.

edit: I must state that the real importance of the cinematics is inform us of the Jailer’s intentions for Anduin much like Saurfang in BfA.

edit 2: *Derek Proudmoore, not Daelin Proudmoore

[Portergauge-moon-guard (Portergauge)]

@Breakcog-proudmoore

which went really crazy in BfA when the Fallen night elves can chose but Daelin and the Desolate council cannot.

Derek is a big hole in an otherwise mostly consistent (if iffy) rule on resurrection, but it is kind of hilarious that Blizzard responding to people hating Darkshore has now made it even more inconsistent and terrible.

[Smallioz-kromcrush]

I don’t know.

I kind of want to see the nuclear fallout of Blizzard kerriganing Sylvanas.
It would be amazing to see how much of a trainwreck it would be.

[Breakcog-proudmoore (Breakcog)]

@Portergauge-moon-guard

@Breakcog-proudmoore

Daelin…

Derek…

Whoops, I mixed my proudmoores.

[Kaileena-the-scryers (Kaileena)]

@Skarm-sentinels

She’s delusional.

This!

@Skarm-sentinels

It’s at the very least more interesting than just going “MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I’M EEEVIL AND DOING EVERYTHING I DO OUT OF POINTLESS SADISM!”

Fair point. That is more appealing.

@Portergauge-moon-guard

I don’t know why people are so up in arms about a cinematic

For me it wasn’t the whole cinematic, just the part where she turned “emotional” and says “how can I convince you”. That’s what did it for me.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

It was supposed to be a parallel to Arthas, how there was still some good in him. I mean, she even does his famous stance when he first pulls frostmourne out in the Wrath cinematic. It was kind of cheesy if you ask me.

[Yvenathilm-fenris (Yvenathilm)]

@Breakcog-proudmoore

edit: I must state that the real importance of the cinematics is inform us of the Jailer’s intentions for Anduin much like Saurfang in BfA.

If Nightlighter’s theory which assumes the Heart of the Forest being the Heart of the Jailer is true and if my theory on that potentially meaning that the Heart of the Forest keeps the Jailer alive is true then the Jailer may die confronting Sylvanas.

If Sylvanas ultimately betrays the Jailer and is confronted by him it would be irony if we found a way to replace his Heart and kill him through the Heart in a way that is extremely painful and most certainly not the way he wanted to go setting Sylvanas up as the Big Bad of Shadowlands while validating her belief in the lack of free will to her mind.

We already know the Jailer’s Model is too boring to be a Big Bad so Sylvanas seems like the only visible candidate! If Sylvanas hijacks the Maw due to us abruptly killing the Jailer then you can imagine she will make attempts to retrieve Mueh’zala and Sire Denathrius to bring about the rise of Death.

[Skarm-sentinels (Skarm)]

@Kaileena-the-scryers

just the part where she turned “emotional” and says “how can I convince you”.

…huh, it’s almost like being well-known as a liar makes it less likely that people will believe you or something!

Why, it reminds me of a fairy tale!

THE WARCHIEF WHO CRIED WORGEN

Once upon a time…

The was a Warchief who was watching over her flock of stupid sheep, the Horde. Wanting to make herself better liked by them before she had them sheared and slaughtered she cried out “Worgen! Worgen!”

At the thought of PVP, all the Horde grabbed their weapons and dashed over to the Warchief, wanting to know where the filthy Blues were.

The Warchief smiled and said that she scared them all off by herself!

The Horde begrudgingly admitted that that was pretty cool and went back to chewing rocks.

The next day, the Warchief once again got bored with thinking about how she owned no loyalty to the morons who served her and they would all die once they were of no more used to her alive and cried “Worgen! Worgen!” again.

The Horde once again immediately spat out the rocks they were chewing on and rushed to the aid of their Warchief, axes ready.

Once again, the Warchief smiled and said she had single-handedly driven them all away. Once again the Horde was impressed, though some of them ran the numbers and thought it didn’t match their sims.

This continued Patch after Patch, but each time the Warchief cried “Worgen!” Fewer and fewer Horde showed up.

One day, while the Warchief was snarling contemptuously at her flock, Genn Greymane appeared! “Worgen! Worgen!” cried the Warchief. But, by this time, no one believed that there were any worgen attacking, because the devs would never allow any Alliance characters to so much as give the Horde a limp slap on the wrist without being told that they were just as bad as the Horde for doing so, even if it was in retaliation for the Horde skinning their screaming children alive in front of them.

So Genn Greymane ripped the Warchief’s head off and #### down her neck.

And everyone was happy!

THE END

[Kaleaon-dalaran]

@Kaileena-the-scryers

Whether her plan succeeds or fails, Sylvanas has to die. They’ve taken the character over the edge and it’s too late to come back now. It shouldn’t be a self or heroic sacrifice either, because that’s not who she is. Her death should be brutal and final. I don’t even want to get into hope they’ve turned this character on a dime twice now, she just needs go, it’s time.

Yeah…that’s not going to happen. You need to go ahead and get over that now or just move on now because what you want isn’t happening.

[Finninbas-moon-guard]

Sylvanas was a mistake. - Chris metzen 2021.

[Faelia-ravenholdt]

@Kaileena-the-scryers

Whether her plan succeeds or fails, Sylvanas has to die. They’ve taken the character over the edge and it’s too late to come back now. It shouldn’t be a self or heroic sacrifice either, because that’s not who she is.

What about a full mental break and results in a victory for the good guys?

Been thinking that Sylvanas sort of reminds me of Gollum. So maybe she should meet her end in a similar way? I mean, Gollum technically was the Hero at the end. He saved the world through his selfishness and greed.

[Finninbas-moon-guard]

Sylvanas felt like she had a brain surgeon working on her or that she had a BSOD or something in that cinematic.

[Kaileena-the-scryers (Kaileena)]

@Skarm-sentinels

it’s almost like being well-known as a liar makes it less likely that people will believe you or something!

You’ve misunderstood me. That part was where I got upset with the scene. As if they were trying to make Sylvanas look like she was in tyne right side and that fact that she started to show some emotion about it was unsettling.

@Kaleaon-dalaran

Yeah…that’s not going to happen. You need to go ahead and get over that now or just move on now because what you want isn’t happening.

Dude, chill out.

@Faelia-ravenholdt

What about a full mental break and results in a victory for the good guys?

Now this has potential.

[Xamantul-ragnaros]

@Kaileena-the-scryers

So she’s trying to save everyone?

AKA Kerrigan redeption where Sylvanas saves the universe somehow, Danuser and Golden are a bane for this game

[Finninbas-moon-guard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWB31WFomz4

This is the perfect ending for sylvanas.

Not gonna tell you who is who .

[Kaileena-the-scryers (Kaileena)]

Oh! What if Anduin is Tony and Sylvanas is Thanos. 2 annoying birds with one stone.

[Finninbas-moon-guard]

well my point was more that maybe i implied that Sylvanas is thanos or maybe i implied that the jailer is thanos and Tony is Sylvanas. I see the latter happening to be more likely I would kinda like both things in different ways, because one has her sacrifice herself for the greater good which is well good because it removes her but bad because of her acting good/redeemed but it stop her from being full on kerrigan. On the other side there is her being removed from existence which is good and almost better.