Did they ever mention her “true objective” outside of that book? I think they briefly bring it up in the intro to 8.2, but that’s all subject to change. Without context this entire expansion seems like we randomly attacked the alliance to gain control of azerite and nothing else.
More on subject, do they even mention that Shandris is in Nazjatar because tyranda is busy fighting horde?
I can see it now:
Anduin is leading the Alliance ground troops towards Orgrimmar. Sylvanas is standing in Grommash Hold, watching as the Honor Horde begin ringing the city bells. Gelbin is standing on a bluff outside the city. Having convinced Tyrande to spare the Horde civilians if they ring the bells of surrender, he sighs in relief upon hearing them. Tyrande, riding on Alexstrasza, her face contorted in rage, begins her descent towards Orgrimmar…
So much this. The closest link between the Night Elves and Nightborne is their appearance, and name. But culturally, the Nightborne are much closer to the Blood Elves; as in, they are essentially the same people who wound up in different locations.
Saying that giving the Nightborne to the Horde was like taking something from the Night Elves is basically saying that the Night Elf story should have priority over the Blood Elf one. The Nightborne and Blood Elves have more of a shared history than the Nightborne and Night Elves.
The closest link between the Night Elves and Nightborne are the Highborne the Night Elves already accepted into their society, their shared history, and the Night Elf druids who saved the Nightborne from withering before they ever got their city back.
Culturally, the Nightborne have much more in common with the Highborne Night Elves in the Alliance than they do Forsaken, Orcs, Trolls, or Tauren. All of whom make up the vast majority of the political entity they joined and now commit genocide for.
Saying that giving the Nightborne to the Horde was like taking something from the Night Elves is basically saying that the Night Elf story has gotten jack squat in terms of development, including an aborted story about their move toward being more progressive on this very matter a decade ago, and that you would have preferred it over Blood Elves Again: The Musical.
But do go on pretending the Nightborne Tourist in the Undercity grinning and taking selfies with the lobotomized and putrefied abominations sloughing about, and then going on to gleefully commit genocide on behalf of those new allies because the Night Elves didn’t smile enough while saving them makes more sense than a plot that could have shown them making amends with a half of their culture and relatives they had thought long dead, which includes living, breathing, fully accepted Highborne among them.
Because daddy Blizz is only a hack writer when he makes you feel bad.
What is with Blizzard retelling the Blood Elf story over and over again?
Suramar: Blood Elves after the destruction of the Sunwell.
War of the Thorns: Arthas’ march on the Blood Elves to the Sunwell.
What’s next, Garithos and the Blood Elves 2.0?
Edit: Nevermind, already covered with the Purge of Dalaran.
I could easily be wrong, but I think that the original point Sereven was arguing wasn’t that Nightborne should be Alliance, but that waaay back before Legion shipped, when the writers were deciding ‘hey, how about we make Suramar a city with surviving inhabitants instead of a destroyed ruin’, they filled it with purple blood elves instead of night elves.
I like Nightbourne. I think that their culture makes it absolutely sensible that they would hang out with the cultured, urbane blood elves rather than their leaf-wearing barefoot cousins. But I was a bit confused that these elves were found in Suramar.
As far as I remember, before Legion, the only information about the city of Suramar was that it was the city where Tyrande was from. Was there any prior information about it being a seat of arcane learning?
I guess that the writers tried to split this history between Suramar and Val’sharah, one for the blood elves and one for the night elves, even adding in new totally-always-existed bits of history of ‘oh, there’s a super important temple to Elune here, and this is Malfurion’s ancient place of study.’
But it didn’t have the same name recognition as Suramar did, and I think that’s what disappoints many night elf fans. Because there was only one named, familiar toy to give, and the other team got it.
And the current minimal writing - mainly, the complete lack of a response to the War of Thorns from any number of characters who really should have had something to say - just fuels this bitterness.
Yes, but the Highborne in the Alliance are a tiny group who were taken in by their cousins, and in fact not very well accepted. To the extent that one of the current Night Elf leaders spent some time murdering Highborne because of how much she hated them. Said murders apparently not being an impediment to regaining a senior position in the Night Elf hierarchy (which is yet another Alliance story beat that Blizzard glossed over because it obviously doesn’t fit with the “super pals” theme they now insist on for that faction).
And this is because there was always a strong cultural distinction between the Highborne and the rest of the Night Elves.
The Blood Elves and the Nightborne, on the other hand, are the same people, except that the Blood Elves were more physically altered over time. But they live the same way, with their arcane-powered metropolises. And they basically act the same way. They have a shared culture, history, and perspective that makes them far closer than the Night Elves and Nightborne will ever be. Night Elf and Nightborne values are basically antithetical. Just look at how they live.
Yes, but now that very same murder, Maiev, is at Darkshore working with the very Highborne (and Malfurion) she tried to kill.
Yes yes, tiny group. Just as tiny as Suramar was before Blizz pulled all of Legion’s lore out of their rears to give to the Horde. Everything you are arguing was made specifically after the fact to cater to you. And I keep saying I am jealous that that energy was not spent on me instead.
Because before Legion giving you the Night Elves from Suramar, there was a Highborne Astrolabe in Ironforge talking about the Night Elves who all died in Suramar and before that there was a Night Elf campaign in WC3 to their land where their people had all died.
Legion gave the Nightborne to you and that’s what I hate.
Everything you are arguing is after the fact and driven by the fact that you like having the toys Blizz hand crafted for you in Legion. It is the equivalent of arguing that you have no business disliking BfA for trashing your characters’ personalities and motivations because as BfA points out, it’s within their character now.
You are arguing post hoc. I am saying the whole hoc sucks.
Yes, and before WC3 there were already High Elves in the game - the same High Elves who are now, mostly, the Blood Elves.
The Night Elves don’t have priority over Elf lore, and especially over Highborne lore, is what I am saying. The Night Elves were never the Highborne - they have taken a few Highborne in, but that’s it. The High/Blood Elves and Nightborne are the same people, and the Blood Elves have as much stake in that story as the Night Elves, if not more.
I don’t follow. Suramar was an entire city. The Highborne who joined the Night Elves were a tiny band who were living in a cave.
… Suramar was rubble the Explorer’s League found an astrolabe in until Legion, was the point. The point was that the Night Elves of Suramar could have been written any way Blizz wanted and they chose Blood Elves 2.0 over letting Night Elves have something good happen to them for once.
Blood Elves are a bizarre example, because they are Elves that were taken from the Alliance and given to the Horde and Blizzard has refused to give them back.
… And then Blizzard gave the Alliance even bloodier Blood Elves instead with the Void Elves.
If Void Elves can fit into the Alliance, Nightborne would have had no problem. And now Thalyssra is even looking back fondly at the Alliance and Horde working together and proposing to Lor’themar that they do that again.
I will give you that probably should make High Elves playable, but the story in Frozen Throne put Blood Elves past just being another human-allied race like the Dwarves. Sure, there was an ulterior motive, but having them be taken into the Horde by the Forsaken’s help is arguably an interesting departure than them just joining up with a Stormwind-led Alliance by default. It helped give the Horde more themes (a magic culture). Being in a very vulnerable state as a civilization with little means of making threats go away (the Forsaken helped stop the Scourge from finishing the job under a raised Dark’Khan) is not just a thing for “savage” races.
Oh, I definitely think giving the Blood Elves to the Horde was a good thing.
But the Alliance can have High Elves without affecting that, as is evident by the Void Elves.
Between the Horde having Silvermoon and Suramar, and Dalaran once again going neutral, the Alliance is actually at a severe disadvantage in the magical culture department. We have plenty of individual magic users, but we’re absolutely dwarfed by the Horde’s arcane might. A single individual, Jaina, is our only saving grace.
And she mostly uses ice magic over arcane. Hell, she even forgot she could mass teleport at the Broken Shore.
“Jaina kind of forgot about mass teleportation.”
Yeah, but she’s the only mage who actually matters in the current expansion, with Khadgar sitting it out.
To be fair, Thalyssra is coming back in Nazjatar to show she’s a mage that matters, too, to make up for running away from Jaina. By… working… with Jaina…
Remember in MoP when Jaina showed up to help take out Garrosh’s defences, and Blizzard needed a corollary for the Horde version, so we got Aethas? Like we were supposed to believe that Aethas Sunreaver was on par with Jaina Proudmore?
Yeah, Thalyssra is this expansion’s Aethas. If she’s so tough, why did she panic and run at the first hint of Jaina back in Stormwind, as you point out?