So rewatching old wow cutscenes:

Keep doing it. There’s a handful of narcissists that hang out here 24/7 trolling every legitimate point and countering those threads with idioms that they then either hop on alts to fan the flames or all pile in on. They’re the standing in the burning house meme claiming things are fine.

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People didn’t hate WotLK for its story but for the casual gameplay, way too easy dungeons and the overall simplification of the game, along with stuff like Gearscore. It was a departure from the Classic era and the shift to a much more broader audience and a lot of people hated this.

Bfa did have some great cinematics imo. Some of the better ones actually.

Shadowlands was a DISASTER.

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Yeah I don’t understand how someone couldn’t love the BfA cinematics. The majority of them were so freaking good.

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Doesn’t make the story good, though.

They are, and hey I do get it some post ARE horrid and should be flagged but it is way over blown these days, people just flag anything for either they disagree with you, or they think its funny and have nothing to do?

I am glad as said in a prior post blizzard seemed to have READ my op post and removed the flag and restored it: Because regardless of how I feel about wow currently or in the past HOPEFULLY someone at blizzard or now Microsoft goes ‘hm we can do better’ and does better.

I am not saying the game can’t have heart felt warm good friendship moments, it can and it should, but the WHOLE THEME around that very concept is pretty bad.

What if, as an Orc I don’t want to help the night elves? It was war and I see nothing wrong with what sylvanas did? my own “head space lore wise” My orc is so old he is that ‘thrashing bloody in the fields of battle’ mind set: I don’t care the tree burned down, but no every turn I take I (as horde) has to feel guilty about what happened, have night elf stuff SHOVED down my throat and even when the tree is finally restored I have to have a buff on me that reminds me: hey your horde, bad, bad boy we are watching you: FEEL GUILTY! - Oh also this buff does NOTHING from what can be seen it is 100% there just to remind you that you are horde and you have been a bad bad boy.

I don’t, I feel nothing for there blight and hardship as a horde player. And that is part of the new vs old: Old we could have separate issues that yes at times wove together but Alliances “main” problems where there own, and Hordes problems where our own → even if those problems lead to a greater narrative together, we still had our OWN issues.

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It’s okay if your character sees it that way, but he’s not particularly smart, considering that Sylvie saw in him nothing more than cannon fodder. :no_mouth:

100% cannon fodder: but that is the lore, you wouldn’t put an orc as the face of your college or even in a spelling B. Also alot of horde players I am sure care LITTLE to nothing about the burning of the tree but we had to hear about it through BFA, Then shadow lands, THEN DRAGON flight.

ok move on, the horde/alliance relationship is rocky, we get it so you guys go fix the tree: We want to go slaughter a dragon - In the end both are means to an end but I don’t care about the night elf Trauma as a horde player: I just wanna kill a stupid dragon that thinks he is deathwing.

Again looking back at older cut scenes: Illidans ultimate ‘hold my beer moment’ lead to the WHOLE world needing to do something so the alliance took us on there ship to go to Argus. it was means to an end we where not fighting for an alliance goal: it was the whole worlds issue that narrative lead us to team up.

Illidan was a jerk: but he FORCED us all to work together not for the alliance, or the horde - but for fact if we don’t we are all doomed - that ALWAYS was the forward message SAVE THE WORLD together or FALL together.

So sure, the burning of the tree could doom us all: We are doing it for that reason - not so you you elves can have a new place to nap, be clear about that - World saving stop the annoyed fire dragon. It has been and always been 100% clear the world saving part seemed second - it always was about saving there new home, not the world.

And you know what? I think it’s totally fine if you stand by that.
For instance, I really like Tauren and appreciate aspects like protecting nature, etc. Consequently, you can imagine how the whole mess around Teldrassil, Darkshore, and even back then with Ashenvale felt to me. If there weren’t such a strict racial divide in this game, I would have had my Tauren switch sides. At the latest in BFA. And honestly, I still find it questionable how a Tauren could have endorsed any of that. Orcs and Undead might see it differently, of course.

So, I’m not even against ongoing skirmishes. However, I don’t want to see another large-scale war. Because it always makes players unhappy by destroying their stuff.^^" But what I do wish for is more freedom in choosing sides. The idea that race determines loyalty and values in this game seems incredibly outdated and limiting for players.

I believe everyone should have the freedom to play out what they want. There are humans, who can’t stand the Alliance, for instance. Or take orcs like Thrall, trying to make peace. Or consider Baine, who, in BFA, lived for several months right in the heart of Stormwind Castle with his girlfriend. xD

I would also wish for this choice for the players.

100% agree I don’t want to see another large scale war with alliance v horde: it just don’t work now maybe if we had a third faction in there it could /strokes chin. Maybe not, either way full fledged wars don’t work because we have player bases on both side who see they are right or just have to much faction pride so neither side can really ‘lose’

and when one side does they wrap 3 expansions worth quest, story, and blah blah blah to fix it and drown us in it.

I have no problem with horde and alliance being friends: fine, but mini battles or : these are horde problems, those are alliance problems and have unique story’s that lead to a single problem - or don’t! but that would be cool.

Absolutely. There could still be conflicts between all sorts of groups, for example, between Night Elves, Worgen, and the Undead. Battles that aren’t dictated by their leaders but simply happen because there’s a lot of bad blood. If one takes a step further and actually makes all races neutral, there could also be strong internal uprisings and struggles. There’s definitely potential.

Take, for instance, the Lightforged and Void Elves. There was… nothing. No friction, nothing. They got along great. I mean, it’s nice and all, but also a bit boring.

I’m not a fan of the Void Elves in that sense, simply because they seem like a last-minute addition to give something to the Alliance (It’s a race with hardly any lore, no home etc.). However, the race has incredible potential. I admittedly created one just for fun at the time because role-playing in Stormwind was practically exploding. I hadn’t experienced anything so fantastic in all my time in WoW.
The role-players portrayed Light fanatics, there were speeches against the Void Elves, supposedly torturers, etc., while the Void Elves tried to establish themselves in their new home. It was so much fun, you can hardly imagine. On my very first evening, my character was almost killed. It was just cool. xD

Conflict doesn’t always have to be negative, it can make the story exciting too.

I was actually hoping to see these two have conflicts with the rest of the alliance tbh, back when the world tree was burnt down.

Not to an Orgrimmar level, but at least the alliance leaders could finally stand out as not just push overs in their factions. Everything always smooths out without consequence for the humans. Lol we can’t be THAT charming!

But that could be in a book somewhere and I wouldn’t even know it. Ah well.

It all worked out for Sylvanas I guess. :joy:

That about sums it up.

The primalists just kinda… came out of nowhere. No build-up. No one but Old Gods and Demons have ever been staunch “anti-Titan” advocates, so suddenly getting this entire cult devoted to “AZEROTH’S PURITY” feels really out of left field.

Arguably, you have the elementals who would be telling shamans why the Titans are bad, but… All the elemental lords are entirely absent from the expac until Smolderon turns up at the very end to get axed in a raid he had nothing to do with. So they basically had no involvement at all, so who was pulling the strings? It certainly wasn’t the Incarnates because they needed the Primalists to get them out of jail in the first place.

There’s that one Grimtotem tauren, I guess. But the whole thing is held together very loosely with very, very little explanation. The amount of times you get primalist NPCs going “YOU FOOLS IF ONLY YOU KNEW” is so aggravating because they won’t actually explain their stance.

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From some things i’ve read its implied that the titan keepers somehow suppressed advancements of the black empire which is like…okay? the old gods literally treat all mortals as toys for their amusement. It doesn’t help that the titans throughout history have been characterized as well intentioned beings who just want to make sure planets don’t go all sideways. Its been shown multiple times that this doesn’t exactly mean they’re 100% good guys like in the case of algalon, or uldir with that wormi boi they made on accident, but at the same time you can at least see what good they were trying to accomplish there aside from the fact that the current inhabitants of the planet wouldn’t like being murdered for a greater good.

Even the “big” reveal that the titan keepers were putting chemicals in the water to make the dragons agreeable just feels so…okay? and? Aside from odyn who is a gigantic prick every titan keepers actions at least have good intentions so the primalists hating them just comes across as say, people hating fluoride in water because they didn’t consent to it.