I’m tracking the same info you are, as I’m on Skyhold talk with Max and Archi from time to time. Perks of the Discord. No one is saying that Warrior ST couldn’t use some tuning, but we’re kinda stuck in that it’s hard for them to balance our ST, (not so much for Arms), without making our AoE OP.
I do believe that some classes like mage/hunter/boomkin do need to be adjusted down as well. Mage with uncapped AOE is just a slap in the face to us, who have been capped at 5-8 for two expacs now.
We aren’t special in 100% uptime fights either. Fury/Arms both are some of the lowest simming patchwerk specs in the game atm. However that is missing the bigger pictures, as I have said a million times in this topic already, the idea of a fight that you just stand there and wail on the boss without mechanics went out the window the moment molten core stopped being current content. Classes can’t be designed around doing garbage dps whenever a mechanic makes us waddle away from the boss for 2 seconds.
We aren’t balanced around that though, our damage is garbage through and through no matter which way you spin it.
I just think you suck at warrior.
so apparently every single warrior even those in the 99th and 100th percentile also suck, right?
For fury it isn’t that hard… they’ve done it before already; give a big aura buff but nerf WW cleave affect to balance out the AoE. Also make recklessness simply not suck :<
Yeah, that’s what the smart folks like Aedan have been saying. SL Fury is a sustain spec that does mostly steady damage, whose cooldowns are few and weak. Many other classes are burst classes, that do massive damage in small windows when they pop their cooldowns and then drop down to a much lower output phase.
Now assuming the burst spec player manages their cooldowns right, enforced downtime comes out of their low output phases, which costs them little. Meanwhile sustain specs like Fury are losing a greater percentage of their total potential DPS by being forced off target. So that’s why you see specs like Fury really falling behind on fights with frequent forced downtime periods.
Now, in itself that’s not bad. Variety is the spice of life and it’s good for everyone to get a chance to shine. But the problem is that the raid design Devs seem to really get sucked into fads. Remember Tomb of Soak-garas? Well, the theme for Castle Nathria is “Fights that are laser targeted at Fury’s weak points”. About the only one that’s actually good for Fury is Huntsman, with the high amount of cleave and Condemn.
Plus it’s also true that Fury’s ST output is a bit on the lower side. But that wouldn’t be nearly so bad if most of the raid fights this tier weren’t ST fights with enforced downtime.
There are no raids in the entirety of legion or BFA that didn’t have downtime. Downtime isn’t the problem, never has and never will be the problem. The problem is that they tuned our damage to be too low. Stop pretending like mechanics are a new feature of shadowlands.
Did Wrathion not have downtime? Did Azshara not have downtime? Did Jaina, Blockade and Mekkatorque not have downtime? We were great dps on fights that had downtime throughout the previous 2 expansions. The last time fury was this bad was during Emerald Nightmarewhen we were saddled with +30% damage taken and the lowest damage output in the game.
Let’s get past this myth that downtime kills warrior dps, it doesn’t. Being extremely undertuned kills warrior dps.
undertuned, terrible cooldowns, and terrible borrowed power compared to other classes.
Thank you for wording that better than my pre caffeine brain could this morning. lol.
True, but when you do that Fury’s sustained AOE starts to turn into a dumbster fire. It’s hard to balance the two.
Indeed, that was a sad time for Fury. Those are also different expacs, with different borrowed powers. We’ll have to see what comes with the big content patch coming up. See if there is something in their plans that we don’t know about yet.
I certainly agree our legendary items are for the most part, underwhelming. Signet is the only one that changes up the play style or creates a impactful effect to earn a legendary spot.
This entire debate is still going?
Your arguments still boil down to “WAHHHH WE SHOULD BE #1” and “WAHHHH WE’RE MELEE”
We are perfectly viable and useful, our execute phase is phenomenal, and I will say I scanned the complaining trolls mythic breakdown and laughed really hard at the disregard of anything positive “OK SO THIS PART MAKES US REALLY GOOD BUT THAT INVALIDATES MY ARGUMENT SO I REMOVED THE GOOD PARTS”.
Mind boggling man. We are great in PVP, M+, cleave, execute and bring a ton of utility. Get over yourselves and not being #1 on the meters, it’s such a stupid thing to cry over.
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Refer to my post referencing literally every fight and dispute it. Calling people babies and insulting people adds nothing to the conversation.
I never said you were a baby; grown adults cry and moan daily, very frequently, in all walks of life. But if the shoe fits sir, and that was your interpretation, that sounds like a personal problem.
I did reference it, you disregard all adds/cleave and say they shouldn’t count. The hardest part of Sun King, for the record, is pushing phases and keeping adds controlled so your entire argument there is useless…to give you a direct example. And while I have had personal reasons for not being very present this tier, I do have pulls on Inerva/SK/Xymox(before you attempt to bring that part up) and the only fight I’ll agree with you on is Xymox, but once again, a few fights not favoring us isn’t an issue.
You are clearly a good raider, but your victim mentality and need to be #1 at a blatant disregard for better players or just general acceptance that we won’t always be 90% haste, corruption buffed nya arms warriors, is quite frankly childish.
You are a direct example of the ability to succeed this tier, as you are 8/10 and now onto 2 of the best fights for warriors in the tier, yet you still choose to complain and pretend we aren’t viable.
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“I didn’t call someone a baby I just made crying noises to represent what they are doing”
Split hairs more.
Splitting hairs
Anecdotal evidence instead of linking literally any statistics.
Baseless assumptions about me needing to be #1, insults, lies. Calling me a child. Didn’t take long to go from “I didn’t call you a baby” to “I’m calling you a child”
Literally said the only thing going for us is battle shout, without that warriors, specially at the high end wouldn’t have a spot in both tank and dps.
Fury objectively suffers more from downtime than any spec in the game.
No one is doing so.
Ignoring that fight design has a greater impact than tuning is incredibly inane.
You keep pointing to past raids. Sure.
Uldir, arms was not tuned highly, Was actually somewhat undertuned after heroic balancing.
Was the top spec in the raid due to fight design.
Fury in EP performed very well. Multiple fights worked very well for it.
In the same raid, fury underperformed. As said fights were specifically incompatible with it’s damage profile.
It’s not a myth.
Downtime hurts fury more than any other spec due to it’s damage profile. This is just basic math.
Alright but it’s not that.
No, they are not.
Fury is 12th. Arms is 9th.
Ignoring all the bosses where that has been the case in the past sixteen years, sure.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2398&dataset=100
It’s not really an argument when both specs clearly perform well.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2383&dataset=100
3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2402&dataset=100&metric=bossdps
What a difference playing properly makes.
I wonder if you can even tell me why arms and fury jump so much from 95 to 100 on this fight.
I doubt it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2405&dataset=100
Amazing what happens when you don’t get mechanics.
Wild!
Killing adds quickly is rather important. It makes the fight trivial.
And this is ignoring that fury/arms can immune every add spawn. Which is even more useful than high cleave damage.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2406&dataset=100
Are you insane.
You don’t understand fight design and it’s incredibly silly.
The chart you linked yourself shows fury at the top. Literally what.
Have you just not seen Echo’s kill video?
If you play around it, arms absolutely destroys this fight.
Every answer I give is backed.
You keep saying this.
It does not make it true.
hahahahahahaha
Any top 50 guild has all six tanks ready to go.
That’s just basic tanking.
Guy posting on a level 10 char vs 8/10M person… hmmmm. Why anyone even acknowledges anything Derez says is beyond me. Just put him on ignore and move on
Using rank 1s as evidence when a lot of rank 1 parses are allowed to pad on adds for longer than normal and often get back to back power infusions thrown into them. If you think people parsing at 95% aren’t playing their class right then I don’t know what to tell you. You’re a completely lost cause.
this particular reply amused me though. 3 specs below both warrior specs, not 2. LMAO
Are you going to tell me that arms in uldir on the more single target oriented fights was bad? Warriors were perfectly acceptable on Taloc, and Fetid which were more single target style fights. Sure we shined on cleave fights like Zul, Vectis and Zek’vaz, even to the point of being borderline overpowered, but we were pretty strong else where. Sweeping strikes was less a crutch, and more the icing on the cake that make warriors so great that tier.
Also fury underperformed in EP? You doing okay there buddy? You smelling burnt toast at all? Fury was the 2nd best performing spec in all of EP.
The adds on that fight don’t need to die in a timely matter to suceed. Hell the rank 1 warrior you linked to has 12 seconds of down time between first set of adds to 2nd set. They are killing those adds awfully slow allowing for increased padding from the warrior and monk in the raid, likely leading to the rank 1 kill. In fact looking at his boss damage, he is dead last on dps to the boss. Anyone who pushed that fight knows that phasing the boss quickly is more important than pressing bladestorm every 60 seconds to pad on damage.
Only a little bit, I’m arguing with a known troll after all.
I think I do understand fight design. Fights have mechanics, all of them, whether we’re talking about Antorus, Naxxrammas, Ny’alotha or Castle Nathria, they all have mechanics. So hiding behind “but mechanics happen therefore dps goes down” is like blaming the sky for raining instead of having an umbrella. If Warrior dps suffers from doing mechanics so much more than any other class then the goal shouldn’t be to petition blizzard to have less mechanics, it’s to petition blizzard to fix the class.
You keep posting one liners as objective facts, it doesn’t make you witty or smart.
Again to reiterate.
Nobody ever said warrior DPS on Jaina was bad because you had to jump off the boat and dodge tornados.
Nobody ever said warrior DPS on Wrathion was bad because you needed to dodge flames.
Nobody ever said warrior DPS on Vexionna was bad because she flew up into the air and wasn’t attackable.
Nobody ever said warrior DPS on Azshara was bad because you had to dance in Runes.
Nobody ever said warrior dps on any of these fights were bad because of any mechanics because warrior dps just wasn’t bad. Nathria isn’t the first raid with mechanics, I feel like I’m arguing with people that up until this tier only knew raids from doing LFR.
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I mean. If you click the profile of people you’re arguing with then are mostly 0/10 Mythic haha
He has 2 17s done and 2 mythic kills. Blind.
Not when I posted it. Go look at the dates of my post and his first kills/17s. New low when people don’t understand that time is linear.