it’s a crutch if you are not good at the spec. definitely not needed
Super excited for the MM changes!!
You have not once demonstrated an understanding of the arguments being made.
You keep ignoring most of them and then pulling out strawmen you’ve made up. You keep asserting that pets are just “hp walls” that let you “afk fire from range” despite all information to the contrary.
As if MM with a pet is easymode.
As if BM and SV aren’t even more like the strawman playstyle you’ve made up.
As if letting your pet mindlessly tank everything while you unload doesn’t just get your pet killed and you rushed by mobs in higher level delves.
You cannot support your claims. Nor can you refute ours. We keep picking apart your claims in detail and you just come back with lazy fallacies that ignore 90% of what was said.
This is not an “agree to disagree” situation (another popular thought-terminating cliche).
You are sitting here fervently denying anyone that disagrees with you by insulting them, pretending like you know them and their playstyles and their motives better than they do, and pretending like they haven’t been spoonfeeding you information that contradicts you, and information that you cannot even acknowledge, let alone refute.
Your ignorance and inability to handle cognitive dissonance is not as equally valid as our well-supported arguments. If it were, you could go point-by-point and knock all of our supports out the way we keep doing to you.
If you were right, you could prove it without having to base your entire argument on “ur jus bad”.
Then move on. You’re adding nothing. Contributing nothing. You’re spouting thought-terminating cliches on a forum explicitly for discussion. If everyone internalized what you’re saying here, there would be no discussion. The forums would be silent because “It is what it is” and “life goes on”. If you really believe that, then why are you wasting time and energy here? You can say the exact same thing about any discourse. “Some people will always disagree with any change, but what can you do? Life goes on.”
“Frost nova is a crutch.”
“Kidney Shot is a crutch.”
“Divine Shield is a crutch.”
“Demon summons are a crutch.”
8 Likes
This.
All of these changes can just use our stabled or existing pets without removing part of what being a hunter is.
We’re not warriors with guns.
Also why can’t survival/BM use their stabled pets instead of random wyvern and things?
7 Likes
Ive never said I agree to disagree… im pointing out its not good gameplay. Its a tough position for you because I can argue from authority. Ive mage tower, delves, mythic tens, and while not this season 2400 in pvp all on a hunter. While im " retired" from progression raiding im still set to knock out cc.
The spec is only improving by losing its vestigial parts.
1 Like
I posted this on Wowhead, but maybe it belongs here:
I have mained a hunter since Vanilla Beta. Other than for a few months during a move, I have played continuously since launch, so I have played a hunter for more than 20 years. Marksman since BC. I have never felt sad reading any blue post about hunter updates until today. I certainly don’t mind having a talent that allows people to pick a generic bird pet in raids if they want, but to take away the ability to have a pet of our choosing by our side whenever we want, which is something that has been with us since day one, feels like a betrayal and a stab in the heart. I also resent being told what my fantasy is. My wolf pet is super special to me and if I lose access to him, my fantasy is shattered. I have used him at times in raids even with the dps loss because I wanted him with me. It’s not right to be a hunter without my pet by my side. Please don’t do this. Please, please, PLEASE do not take away my Charlie.
MM Hunters had Lone Wolf thrust upon them, we didn’t have a choice, and many of us still hate it. We didn’t play hunters for over 10 years to NOT have to use a pet. Matter of fact, before Legion, many pets had special abilities like being able to resurrect players, had an AOE fear, or could kick off a true Bloodlust, which was fantastic and useful and felt great. We’ve done extra quests and special events in order to be able to tame certain types of pets. We have camped out for hours at a time waiting for a chance to tame a rare that only shows up under certain conditions. We have gotten groups of people to help us to jump through hoops to get enough buffs to make a 20 second Tame Beast cast time down to around 6 seconds to tame the Grimtotem Spirit Guide. We love our pets.
People who started playing during Legion might have seen MM as the “I don’t have to worry about a pet” spec, but that’s not how most of the older players I know feel. With Lone Wolf, we were forced to stable our pet if we wanted to push higher level content. When not pushing keys or heroic/mythic raiding, (or maybe PvP, I don’t know since I don’t PvP), we usually have our pets out for questing, delves, world content, etc. BM is not the same, it feels like a doggie day care, and since survival went melee, that’s out. Survival is a discussion for another thread.
There is just no reason for this change that I can wrap my head around. Blizzard is telling millions of their players that the are going to euthanize our dogs against our will, making us literally feel like our dog just died. Not only that, now we have to adopt a bird, whether we like birds or not, because they want us to. It’s heartless and I don’t think they know how cruel this is.
The mechanic sounds fine, if you want to have a pet fade in and out and do stuff during a fight, then by all means, keep the mechanic. It’s not the mechanic that is causing the hate and discontent. Just don’t force a NEW fantasy on us that you think we want, changing a basic truth about an original class. We want our pets. And those of you that don’t, it probably won’t affect you much since Lone Wolf appears to be here to stay in one form or another.
10 Likes
Ive tried it numerous times over the years and yea I agree. It just feels clunky.
After surv got nuked and turned melee, I tried mm. Nope. Been bm since. I did toy with mm in sl too. Yea. Not a fan lol.
I don’t think they’ve done a change like this since legion. Reinventing surv and combat to outlaw.
Tbh it should happen more often, but so should balancing updates.
I used vanilla as an example of how long they’ve been good at solo content. Not as the whole argument lol.
Only if you don’t know how to kite. You have blink and alter time to easily juke and get distance.
My mage was void elf for the longest time for the extra void shift for more kiting.
Because you had to actually use your kit vs /afk and let your pet do all the work.
You can use it to reposition. Not as a damage mitigation.
Very useful for kiting.
Tbh that was a massive shift for me. I was a surv main since wrath. I was very upset to login and find it was reworked to melee.
And as far as deleting the pet goes. I agree. Its silly to not give a choice, but I understand the change.
Their patch notes, they say they want to bring marks to be more sharpshooter like. Which in a norm setting. A sniper won’t have a pet running around. I get it, but I don’t agree with all or nothing.
Because that is why I play hunter, so I can play like a mage. Not because hunter is ranged + pet or anything…
6 Likes
A hunter can be a many number of things. A sharpshooter spec is focused on big damage, no pet. Usually anyways.
So if we want to talk about what a marksman actually looks like, no pet is how is should have been from the start.
But that is not how it was from the start. From the start it was ranged + pet. That is why I picked the class. And now all these years later they are taking away what I love about the class. Now will be down to 1 spec that is ranged + pet. And it is the spec I like the least. I guess it would be nice if there was some choice in spec for those of us who picked the class based on ranged + pet…
8 Likes
You said, that we “just disagree”. The only other interpretation is that you were making yet another ad hominem attack, or implying that everything I said was wrong because it disagreed with you.
That is literally an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. Even if you were the best player in the world, if you cannot support your claims or refute the claims made by others it does not matter.
Read that again until it sinks in. You cannot articulate a single coherent refutation. You keep pulling out logical fallacies and making excuses and ignoring the vast majority of the arguments presented to you. You have no authority if you cannot demonstrate how those achievements give you said authority. You have barely even proven that you even play this game. You have engaged so little with the arguments spoonfed to you that you could very well just be lying about playing the game.
Go on. Show us your skill. Show us why we should care about your “authority”. Use it to dismantle the arguments and counterarguments that you keep running away from.
PS: This harkens back to when they did that ability pruning pass everyone hated that they have since partially reverted because players actually liked using spells like Eyes of the Beast to scout for rares or sniff out enemy players without risking walking into an ambush.
Not for the past 20 years in WoW. And irl your sharpshooters and artillery are always posted up behind your front line defenses so they can line up their shots without putting themselves directly in the line of fire.
2 Likes
Lust, and I don’t need to lose DPS because of a pet, and I get to be in my preferred spec.
I don’t think you know what a logical fallacy is…
You also got appealing to authority wrong
Prove it. Tell us how.
You do know what “proof” is, don’t you?
You do know how to structure an argument, right?
You make claims, then you support those claims with evidence and reason.
You refute arguments by demonstrating flaws in the claims, the supporting arguments, or the premise or structure of the argument itself.
Saying, “I’m an authority so take me at my word. I don’t have to justify my claims to you,” is a textbook appeal to authority.
The more you keep refusing to support or prove a single thing you say, the more you look like a troll. You’re being pressed to elaborate just a little bit more and even that is apparently impossible for you. That’s either malicious or pathetic.
2 Likes
they will in the new patch! 
No… appealing to authority is pointing out a power to back up your argument.
Im just flat out stating having done 2400 pvp, all 10s, ce ( on last boss this tier mostly retired), devles till mount, mage tower, and more that I know how gameplay works for hunters and its a positive change for the class.
We have achievements on the forums you can click to see.
Because only a small portion of the people that play the game, let alone play MM do that Primal. The rest play with pet.
I swapped to Shaman for Wrath and i feel as if we went through a lot of changes since then.
Did you like the survival rework?
Brewmaster and a number of other specs that are performing poorly. This has always been Blizz’s way though. The class balance devs spend their time on the classes they like and the ones they don’t get ignored. This isn’t anything new sadly.
Source
3 Likes