Open world war-mode is filled with gladiators and rank 1 ready to kill you anytime.
I’m sure that is way more risky than a mythic raid.
Why do you think other ‘casual’ players do ‘nothing’?
Debatable. And Warmode is optional in open world content, with little to no benefit to the player outside of the enjoyment of world PvP.
Or, I should say, “enjoyement” of world PvP.
You might get killed by another player out in War Mode, but I think wiping in Mythic raid progression is far more likely.
Please educate this casual. What risk is involved? Do we lose gear if the group wipes? Does your subscription increase if we don’t succeed within 20 tries?
I believe what we are talking about is “Time + Effort + Skill Set = Chance at Reward”
Time is literally time.
Effort is learning and persistence
Skill Set is natural abilities, perfecting a class (thoroughly knowing interrupts, cooldown management and so on) and focus such as Mythic dungeons or raids, PvP or climbing that &^%$ tree for a nest of unusual materials.
So really, there is no risk, only a payoff for essentially persistence in a particular focus of game play. The decision that some game play focii are more valuable in terms of reward simply reflect our culture, that a person in an office who decides how many beeps the car alarm makes should be better compensated than the person carrying bricks all day. This is simply who we are as economic minions chasing better rewards.
Grizzle, the following is an editorial comment and not directed to you personally as you state your case better than most. 
When we start to place values that in turn cause us to label people as better or worse and that leads to endless tedium debating imaginary virtues that give imaginary status in a video game. It’s sad that our economic hamster wheel follows us into our recreation.
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That’s true. But it’s not always about risk, it’s about knowing the right people, having the time to sink into that kind of commitment, and if you are going to be a part of the most exciting kills, you need that time to spare. A lot of time it’s not about ability, it’s about choice.
Luckily M+ exists to give people choice though, and I would image that most people who know how to play their class even basically can do 5-9 M+ and over the course of a patch, have pretty good gear.
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While I agree, Blizzard doesn’t really see that as a form of progression and rather just “hey go have fun…but not really”. And unfortunately, it’s Blizzards say on that 
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Dude, it’s a situation that 100% HAS already happened. Why do you think they made such drastic changes to the gearing paths between PvE and PvP between Vanilla and TBC? It was 100% because the raiding community complained about the PvP gear being some of the BiS gear for PvE.
It has everything to do with the conversation because it’s a mirror y’all refuse to look into.
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Risk of failing. As content gets harder, the risk of failing and not receiving a reward increases. As you earn your rewards, the risk lessens/lowers. Hazards are ever present, but the risks go down.
A 200 ilvl group attempting an M+ 10 for example, is at a much higher risk of failing than a group of 230 ilvl. The rewards for the 200 group are much higher (200 to 236), as the risk is greater. Whereas the 230 group has lower risk, and lower reward (200 to 236).
This is how I look at the risk vs reward system. Someone in 220 gear tackling content (WQs) that offer 207 gear isn’t at much of a risk. Again, hazards are always present, but the risk of actually failing is nearly nigh. Whereas someone at 220 gear stepping into Heroic raids (239 ilvl) has a higher risk and a better reward
Just want to point out that I label myself as a casual as I have no in game friends, no guild, and no community. I play at my leisure and do what I enjoy doing. 
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But that’s not about PvP complaining about wanting Gladiator level gear for leveling up and hitting level 60.
No, they are not the inverse of each other at all. Two completely separate things.
One is locking gear behind content you don’t want to do
The other is demanding gear for doing nothing.
Nowhere near the same thing
It is not up to you, op, to determine what other players need/want. If they can aquire it in the many different ways that’s available, good for them.
In fact, the very notion of stating that “if ur not high end raiding you don’t need high end raiding gear and I’m preventing you from having it” is very… authoritarianism.
So that when I’m doing that “Collect the anima” quest in Korthia, I can round up a dozen mobs on my DPS, AOE them down, bulk loot them, finish the quest in 2 pulls, and still have mostly full health without even blowing a cooldown.
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Can do this with Korthia rewarded gear 
Just to elaborate, given my response, that’s why I have my stance on “casuals” receiving better gear.
You should be rewarded for the content you do. If you’re 250 doing m10 you should be rewarded with m10 gear. Whether it’s an upgrade or not.
Like wise, I’d all you’re doing is WQs, you should be rewarded with gear in line with WQs.
Want better gear? Do content that rewards better gear. And it’s not me being a troll and saying “git gud” (it could come off that way I guess).
Risk vs reward. Take a risk, get rewarded for taking the risk
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that was an actual descent solo content with descent gear.
I dont think its so much they feel the need to HAVE to have gear as much as they think there is to many systems in place to go get the gear. That atleast is my biggest concern as a casual player. Grinding 5 different things to power your character up just to raid.
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Ah. I see what you are saying.
My issue comes down to the risk part. Everyone has the same risk in that the effort won’t succeed and thus no payoff. Makes sense and no disagreement.
What I am struggling to comprehend is why some kinds of effort are rewarded my generously than other kinds of effort, sort of when raiders complain about having to do PvP and PvP specialists complain about having to do instances and, of course, casuals complaining about having to do either.
I think we all want to play the parts of the game we find most enjoyable and see rewards for our efforts to progress. And because many don’t value the aspects of the game we don’t play, we deprecate those aspects of the game receiving better rewards.
Speaking only for open world only casuals, I don’t need to be someone who can solo a current raid boss but getting to a point I simply don’t die as often isn’t very satisfying in terms of measuring any sort of reward versus time and effort. I accept Kroke is going to hand me my backside when I first start Korthia but where is that moment when I can snort and tell the NPC next to me, “Hold my Dr. Pepper, I’ll be right back.” Okay, a bit facetious, but hopefully you get my tongue in cheek message that not dying as often is a measure of progress but not a very satisfying one. By the time 9.2 comes out I do want to feel like a fearsome presence to 9.1.5 enemies. And then restart the whole treadmill with the new content.
I’ve earned that gear in the countless hours and corpse runs back to some of those world bosses. I’ve done it differently than a mythic raider or a PvP gladiator but I’ve made the effort; I’m exalted with both factions and ground out so much currency all my equipment is level six. I’m not asking for the best but give me some gear that makes NPCs say “Oh crud, it’s HIM!” Or something to that effect.
Anyway, I appreciate the civil discourse my friend. Thank you.
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See that’s hazard. Hazard is always present for everyone due to the nature of the beast. Risk fluctuates depending on gear, skill, familiarity, etc etc.
And that’s why I argue RISK vs reward. The hazards of a dungeon are the same for someone 197 as there is for someone 250.
Risk is different for either of them though.
I don’t think this really applies to this expansion. The only thing I saw remotely close to this was how it was “easier” to acquire gear from PvP when the expansion just started due to how FAST you could acquire gear as opposed to 40% in dungeons and raids.
About the time you’re fully geared in Korthia gear (230-233)
It’s about 220 for me on my alts that I’m realizing I’m hitting that point. Before then I’ve still gotta be a little cautious. By 230 I have no fear at all lol
take care friend and good luck!
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This is not an argument.
This is also not an argument. If you don’t answer the question of “why” you think as you do, you aren’t adding to a conversation or supporting your opinion. For instance, right now now they could have Torgast once per week on max difficulty drop either a 245 piece, or a 239 dom socket piece. This would not overpower mythic, but it would be enough motivation to do the content. It also would have been a 3rd source for people who got exceptionally unlucky with this clunky system.
This was a proper response! See above for the gear that would be available, and this follows the same relative item levels from visions. This would overpower some heroic gear for heroic guilds, and be competitive for struggling mythic guilds, but cutting edge mythic players would quickly outgrow it unless they had substantial problems with luck. In which case this is a positive not a negative. Your argument is exactly the same problem we currently have with mythic plus, but one step down from mythic plus. If you are concerned about the path for mythic progression, mythic plus is where the problem you describe is taking place.
Comparing it to Korthia isn’t relevant because tokens as catchup gear have been a thing since the Timeless Isle. It was already baked in 3 expansions before there were visions.
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Lol okay keep trolling
Sorry, but this isn’t a “Sunday” type topic. I have yet to see a “casual” who refuses to do raiding higher than Normal (and maybe only even LFR or no raiding at all), refuses to do high end m+ keys let alone anything above a +5, only wants to do 2 min World Quests, etc. give a good and valid reason on why they expect to be able to get Mythic raiding ilvl type gear or close to it when they don’t want to do any of the actual things to get it.
So tired of those people who whine and cry who want everything handed to them instead of actually putting in the time and effort to get those things. They don’t want to do it then they absolutely don’t need that gear. Farm gold then and buy the couple of BoE Heroic/Mythic items then.
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