I think they would have agreed anyway, we know the orcs cared a lot about their clan system, more than an individual of the clan.
The Legion would have used their eat or die method and said: do this or burn and I think the Orcs would have agreed.
Their Achilles heel, the importance of the clan structure, would have continued. instead of manipulation and corruption, simple blackmail, both way are very common for the legion, or even openly slavery.
Orcs embody more the spirit of survival against any difficulty. Aldrachi, as well as a warrior race, embody more the pride of war, the indomitable spirit, both of which are common tropes associated with the warrior.
See … I dunno. Even if they ultimately were just manipulated by Garrosh, once they were made aware of what the Fel was (and the manipulations of Gul’dan) they did as a people reject the Legion and Fel. They also, as a people (independent of outside influence) rejected Void usage. Yes, they did toy with this new magic for a time once they were exposed to it; but once realizing both its corruptive influence AND negative impact on the spirits & elements … they followed the lead of the Shadowmoon and rejected it entirely. Until Blizz forgot what they wrote for both that tribe and Pre-1st War Ner’zhul at least…
The reason for this being. Their relationship with their ancestors and elements were very important to them; and as an ex slave race they’ve proven to be remarkably resistant to the notion of willingly enslaving themselves. Unless they come to believe they truly have zero other options. And even then, it seems like that “Final Resolution” choice is made on a Clan to Clan basis.
From the orcs view it was the equivalent of someone driving a dune buggy through a cemetery. The Orcs saw Oshugun as the sacred residence of their dead as their spirits were being drawn to it.
But the situation we are playing out here is exactly such a situation, there is only extinction or survival. The Eredar deal, so to speak. And the exact knowledge that this god-like being Sargeras would easily be able to do so.
I say they would have chosen it by majority, Spirits and Elements or not. Ultimately, they are concerned with survival, and from this they derive a sense of self and pride, from this ability to endure against all resistance.
They are not so much focused on warrior pride per se.
That IS Syvanna’s argument to Saurfang in a nutshell. War with the Alliance is inevitable, let’s start and finish it on our terms instead of theirs. The best way to start a war is not let them see you coming. The Japanese were negotiating peace terms right at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Well “unprovoked” … provided Blizz whitewashed all the aggressive Alliance moves proceeding that. Or BSed excuses for those acts not to count. The attempted assassination on the Horde’s new Warchief (which was forgot by everyone but a passing mention from Saurfang). The slaughter of Goblin civilians by SI:7 in Silithus (which Blizz tried to invalidated twice. Once with the excuse they originally thought up with Sapphretta. Once because “they’re Goblins lol!” when they realized that the first excuse didn’t chronologically work). Then there was the flooding of Org with so many SI:7 spies civilians were literally tripping over them, to send the deliberate message of “we are always watching”. Which only stoked paranoia. But … they weren’t allowed to count in any capacity, so the Horde attack was unprovoked.
Sigh … its the Varian declaring war on the Horde in WotLK, but Garrosh starting it in both Cata. And then starting it again in MoP. Because of two very conveniently created peace treaties crafted in in between expansion books (just in time for the Horde to break them) … all over again.
Not even all these events together are enough justification for the War of Thorns and you know that, they are not zero, but even together it would not have been enough, especially when you remember what the Alliance has forgiven in return.
You mean every indication that the Alliance was preparing for war and was already attacking the Horde to really sell Sylvanas’ argument that “they are going to attack us eventually”? Which got Saurfang on board? There’s nothing quite like “attempted assassination of our new leader, after we just lost the last one to the Legion” and … “a military organization killing civilians miners just doing their jobs” to really sell “we’re at war with you”. Then you stoke civilian paranoia by deliberately making your spies as transparent and numerous as possible in the other Faction’s capital city … that just screams “seriously, we aren’t aggressive”.
Frankly speaking, if Blizz weren’t so obsessed with maintaining the Alliance’s picturesque shine (even the Alliance head of the CIA) … I would have thought with all that nonsense Shaw was TRYING to aggravate the Horde to war. But the master of spies is kept as squeaky clean as everyone else on the Allies these days.
A leader who worked against the interests of the Horde, even then, and especially against the interests of the Alliance and even torpedoed her own war with it instead of really helping against the Legion by weakening one of the most powerful assets against the Legion, yeah, really makes sense…why do you keep raising that flag so high? Without looking at the flip side of what Sylvanas was really up to there.
Minners who have previously attacked themselves.And yes, that’s what GOBLINS do to protect their business interests, it’s been seen in other areas, shall I remind you of MOP, what the Goblins did there. I only say for example Garrosh and his close alliance with the goblins. Don’t keep pretending that goblins are innocent, when they feel business interests are threatened, they will take up arms if necessary to drive away potential opponents if they can’t simply bribe them away.
You already saw this in Northrend WOTLK.
So it is nothing new and in noway untypical for goblins to do so.
Because no one, not even Genn and Rogers, knew really what the hell she was even doing in Stormheim. And as “grey” as the attempted enslavement of Eyir was, she could have easily made the arguments that she was trying to improve her people’s quality of life. Which, like it or not, Eyir and her ability to create Val’kyr could do. Which not a stance that could have been disproven off hand. So … what we really have in Stormheim, is a situation where I (the player with Meta Knowledge of that event understand and am OK with that outcome) … but the characters in game don’t have that insight. It literally was just Rogers and Genn acting on personal grudges and trying to axe the Horde’s new Warchief; while not knowing before or after what she was really doing. And you are LYING if you say otherwise. And as such, that event (and Anduin’s total lack of response to it) is akin to a decleration of war.
And right, like I said, Blizz always BS-s a reason for the Alliance “acts of grey” (as few as they are) to be whitewashed. To artificially maintain that purity test. Because the Goblins in Silithus attacking the EL FOR NO REASON, is only explained by “They’re X Race, its what they do lol!” Which, no, there was no given reason why they would be so stupid as to antagonize the Alliance; unless they were dumb enough to think they could hide a giant sword in the planet. Which means “they’re goblins lol! They’re dumb and goblins, and thus the baddies” … because Blizz screwed up with the chronology of the Sapphretta abduction and couldn’t use that excuse to handwave SI:7’s attacking the Bilgewater Miners. Which is why we ended up with this bizarre situation where the Bilgewater Goblins attack the Explorer’s League not ONCE, but TWICE. Because Blizz realized late in the game that the original excuse they made would not work.
Blizz constantly coddles, insulates, and handwaves away any Alliance aggressive act. They are so obscenely non-committal to those few “acts of grey” its frankly surprising when they don’t try to bury them under so many excuses and justifications that they’re proven right in the end. Like the Purge of Dalaran was by default, with having only the Leader of the victims beg and apologize for it.
The attack itself was without foreknowledge, I’ll go along with that, but if you argue with Sylvanas and the “merits of her people”, you also have to accept the counter-argument that Sylvanas’ undead pose a direct threat to Genn and his people whose extermination was and is the only way to solve it in his mind, and served as improvement of his people quality.
On top of that, Sylvanas herself has dulled any morality of this event by later revealing that she was really just playing her 4d cheese again.
I’m already saying they were protecting their investment and wanted to mine Azeroth without competition. Which their leader considered vital to the war effort and must remain under their control at all costs.
There were enough reasons for them to do so.
Thats not a “they#re x race, its what they do lol!”
Well, no, he apologised to the council, not to Jaina, for the betrayal of Dalaran (which was proven to have been committed by his people beforehand).
He did not apologise to Jaina, or Vereesa, or talk to them. Even though Jaina was the leader of the Kirin Tor at the time of the Purge, he has not spoken to her since.
Aethas was the deciding vote in favor of Dalaran aiding friggen Theramore during the Garrosh invasion. Its just that, conveniently, the part of the Purge of Dalaran Scenario where Aethas happens upon the theft of the Devine Bell just after it occurs was “bugged out”. A part where he was faced with the horrific decision to either leave his people to the mercy of either Garrosh (Orc Hitler by that point) or Jaina (the woman who he helped commit Dalaran into aiding). For the actions of a tiny minority.
Aethas was in every way the Leader of the Victims of the Purge of Dalaran. Which is why I love that to date he is the only one to have ever beg and apologize for it lol! God, it is why I cannot wait until Blizz justifies and makes right Yrel and the Lightbound’s literal cultural genocide of every race on Draenor. You just know they are going to do it. They can’t help themselves. The Purity Test must be maintained.
Haven’t they already started? I don’t remember the scenario, but wasn’t it discussed a few days ago that the Mag’har Orcs first rose up violently against the Draenei when some defected to the Light, and then that backfired violently?
No, not yet. The majority of what we do know stems from the AU Mag’har perspective of the events of that planet, and the “Light Mother” in game book shedding a little bit of light on the Lightbound ideology. That book of which ironically makes no mention of the Crystallization of the planet that was later used by the Lightbound to justify their crusade. Which suggests the crusade started first.
What we do know outside of that is that despite AU Grom maintaining a position of authority, as far as we’re aware AU Draka is/was of equivalent rank (or greater). And that AU Durotan was killed by the Lightbound. Both of whom are Frostwolves, who did nothing to earn such treatment. However, I haven’t a doubt that Blizz will be characteristically noncommittal with the Lightbound narrative if they ever do bring it back. Even if an AU Branch, they are Draenei and thus are Alliance race. I’d be shocked if they didn’t “stumble across” the “Genocide is OK as long as its an Alliance race doing it” theme.
even ingame, most of the focus was about the horde, to say the horde hat not a massiv focus (but not a positiv one) in bfa would be a lie.
Hrmm, okay, i´m not sure, i mean, could you post the book? And the Crystallizitation of the planet is why? i thought the light do this to imprison void beings and to punish them, not to use this power against…mortals.
Its … more complicated than that. Really complicated.
But at the bare minimum it was a tragedy orchestrated by Gul’dan to make it appear that that is what occurred. And that it was intentional by the Draenei. As he himself killed what few survivors did escape to ensure only his version of that events survived. What actually happened is that the Bladewind were one of the more antagonistic Clans against the Draenei. Preforming regular raids against them, and the occasional kidnapping. Against the general wishes of the other clans, who were more of the “just watch them and keep your distance”. But never to the extent that the Draenei themselves couldn’t handle it.
When Gul’dan started his Fel and Legion activities, it unbalanced the Elements … which hit the region the Bladewind lived particularly hard. Causing droughts and famines. Then Gul’dan released the Red Pox, which ravashed the Orcish populations … but hit the already struggling Bladewind extremely hard. With a 70 percent mortality rate. He then showed up, convinced the Clan that the Draenei were behind their hardships, and the only way to “appease the elements” was to kill Draenei. Which they believed because they were beyond desperate and he was of the Shadowmoon.
So … the Bladewind upped their game on raids and kidnappings, one of which such kidnappees was Maraad’s younger sister. Instigating a full on offensive in response by the Draenei. However, when the Draenei arrived at the Clan and discovered all the captives dead … things spun wildly out of control on both sides. With the Draenei being emotionally compromised, and the Orcs being in a starved, desperate frenzy. Resulting in a massacre of the entire Clan (once Gul’dan himself killed off the survivors). And he used this tragedy as ammunition to reinforce KJ’s manipulations around “the Draenei are out to kill you all”.