So I guess the level squish is official now

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

I mean, even before the Level scaling, there were level 5 demons and level 5 boars.

Great. And now there’s a ton of homogenized content. Because reasons.

It is exactly the type of threat that matters, because if the burning legion is supposed to be “the greatest threat that Azeroth has ever faced,” yet the trash mobs a zone over have the exact same power, same HP, same…everything, then it completely ruins that “immersion” they’ve been going on about.

[Tailspin-wyrmrest-accord]

Because I spend my time in dungeons rather than out in the world.

So, as someone who levels almost solely through dungeons and enjoys being able to unlock new spells and talents. A level squish impacts me pretty much only positively. Though I understand that other people may not see it this way.

[Takiyanti-wyrmrest-accord (Takiyanti)]

I got the survey too. Got to 63%, Wished I had been asked about things you were, like what you are disatisfied with, so I could have said random loot. Generally, I’m happy with BfA, and while I don’t mind random loot dropping from bosses, I HATE HATE HATE the gear progression system in BfA. Titanforging is part of the problem, but not the main problem. The fact that there is no way to target gear is frustrating. Titanforging could be fixed if either it could not match Mythic raid levels (I don’t even really raid, but I feel that top end content should always be the only source of that kind of gear), OR, if titanforged gear can match or exceed things like mythic raids (which it should never exceed), if it was something where you can make your other gear be manually upgraded to titanforged. Or at least make it so you upgrade your gear to titanforged levels with some kind of currency.

While I’m on rant, bring back legion style legendaries, but bring back a trackable way to obtain them. I LOVED the legendaries in legion, just not the completely random, untrackable method of getting them. Also, bring back gem slots! I wanna socket, damn it, even if I never will actually do it because I’m a cheapskate. GIVE ME THE CHOICE! Also, more enchants. Every piece of gear should either be able to have an enchant, a gem, or a glyph like old style glyphs, but on armor (hey, this could be a way to give inscription something again, and give people minor azerite style traits).

And finally, maybe have some kind of hybrid talent system mixed between classic wow and modern wow, like we have the points to spend a la classic, with trees that you can go into any spec for, and also the current “every fifteen” talent point choices for the BIG IMPACT choices. Gives a way to have a reward for something every level, while still keeping those choices we like

[Gladewiing-aggramar (Gladewiing)]

rather than having boars that kill you after you just defeated sargeras

We already have that. Some of the first enemies I fought in Drustvar were boars. Now I admit I was in no danger but somebody might have been and they would have died to a boar after defeating Sargeras.

[Kahless-blackhand (Kahless)]

Ah, so I guess that GD has a new (old) non-issue to freak out about.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

Some of the first enemies I fought in Drustvar were boars.

Which wouldn’t be the result of zone scaling at first, because it was new content.

Now, when you go back to farm mats or whatever and you encounter the same boars AFTER defeating nzoth (and they are scaled with you because of the new system)…it’s a different story.

Welcome to the homogenized world of scaling.

[Laeth-hakkar]

You never gain any power all you do is unlock abilities and zones. What is the point of having levels if there is nothing to be gained.

If a level squish brings back something to look forward to every level, whether it be a new ability or a talent, then I’m for it personally.

This. I enjoy leveling because of what it gives me or what it lets me access, the numbers and stats are irrelevant.

If they remove the homogenization they’ve brought to the game with scaling, then a sense of progression will return.

Scaling isn’t causing homogenization, its the lack of gaining anything from leveling. From 110 to 120 you have absolutely nothing to look forward till you hit 120, 111-119 are meaningless.

When the world is flattened down to a homogenized flat line where a boar and a demon have the same power, there is no sense of getting better, stronger, or progressing as a character.

Outside critters are irrelevant, and that’s always been the case anyway something something moose in Northrend can kill Ragnaros something something

[Gladewiing-aggramar (Gladewiing)]

But how is that different? Either way a boar is still killing you after you defeated some world destroying force.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

Scaling isn’t causing homogenization, its the lack of gaining anything from leveling.

Obvious contradiction there. It’s the progression you get when you gain power, etc in leveling. The core of the RPG part of MMORPG. If your character is static even though their levels increase, that isn’t progression. The world around them shouldn’t be increasing in power (it’s not like mobs have dungeons or trainers they are hitting to gain levels).

something something

Obvious strawman.

[Nodos-kargath]

Great. And now there’s a ton of homogenized content. Because reasons.

It is exactly the type of threat that matters, because if the burning legion is supposed to be “the greatest threat that Azeroth has ever faced,” yet the trash mobs a zone over have the exact same power, same HP, same…everything, then it completely ruins that “immersion” they’ve been going on about.

Because not all Demons were burning legion. Not all undead are apart of the scourge, not all mechanical beings are apart of the same faction.

Before level scaling, there were only two actual types of enemies that were uniquely high level only. Dragonkin which showed up in the 20s, and giants, which showed up at the 30s.

I agree that WoW’s last expansion should have been essentially what Argus was, but meh. Even from a Story perspective the Legion hasn’t been the greatest threat. They say they burned multiple worlds but yet have been defeated on Azeroth roughly 6 times. 7 if you count WoD’s invasion.

TBH the Scourge actually felt like a bigger threat than the Legion. The armies of Azeroth only one against the Scourge once (Wrath). Before that it was a slow war of attrition that was in the Scourge’s favor. And even then it isn’t really a true victory as they still exist, just contained.

The world around them shouldn’t be increasing in power (it’s not like mobs have dungeons or trainers they are hitting to gain levels).

why shouldn’t the world around you gain power? You think you’re the only one questing, training, ect? You think our enemies are just sitting there being lazy?

I do think the level scaling should be used more selectively. Like have caps to areas. But overall enemies trying to match the power of their enemies is common.

[Kahless-blackhand (Kahless)]

Boars are there to keep you humble.

[Laeth-hakkar]

It’s the progression you get when you gain power, etc in leveling. The core of the RPG part of MMORPG. If your character is static even though their levels increase, that isn’t progression.

They’re static because they don’t gain anything. My Strength went up is meaningless, I like getting new abilities

The world around them shouldn’t be increasing in power (it’s not like mobs have dungeons or trainers they are hitting to gain levels).

But that’s always been the case, normal zones and dungeons in each following expansions had harder enemies than the endgame of the previous expansion. It was in Vanilla too, why are these boars level 5 and these over here level 50?

[Laeth-hakkar]

Boars are there to keep you humble.

True to life.

[Nodos-kargath]

True to life.

But that’s always been the case, normal zones and dungeons in each following expansions had harder enemies than the endgame of the previous expansion. It was in Vanilla too, why are these boars level 5 and these over here level 50?

Man one thing I miss was the boar to 60 challenge. It takes some like 7000 boars to kill but it was possible to get to 60 using just boars.

[Laeth-hakkar]

XD

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

But how is that different?

I literally spelled it out for you.

They’re static because they don’t gain anything. My Strength went up is meaningless, I like getting new abilities

That’s your opinion, as indicated by “I like getting.” The actual progression of the game (pre scaling) worked as I laid out. You did gain something and had a real sense of progression as you gained levels because you gained in power, etc in relation to the rest of the world you were travelling through.

But that’s always been the case, normal zones and dungeons in each following expansions had harder enemies than the endgame of the previous expansion.

Key words: The FOLLOWING expansion. Not homogenizing all of the content into a flat line. And definitely not eliminating all levels completely, which is where this is will eventually go.

Bookmark this post, come back when that survey question comes up if this doesn’t get squashed now. Because that will happen, if this road is started down.

[Laeth-hakkar]

You did gain something and had a real sense of progression as you gained levels because you gained in power, etc in relation to the rest of the world you were travelling through.

No you didn’t because you would move on to tougher zones to continue leveling and gearing, you didn’t stay in Elywnn the whole time.

Because that will happen, if this road is started down.

Hi slippery slope fallacy.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

No you didn’t because you would move on to tougher zones to continue leveling and gearing, you didn’t stay in Elywnn the whole time.

Hi, strawman fallacy.

Hi slippery slope fallacy.

Funny, because this is exactly what people were saying when we were talking about the problems that would come from the homogenization issues of scaling. Level squishes, and the eventual removal of levels. In fact, you can find people calling for the removal of levels in the forums already.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

I hope this isn’t true. A squish solves nothing.

Adjusting xp values and giving our abilities back would.

Leveling in MoP was enjoyable, methinks the 120 number isn’t the problem. It’s so lazy, it hurts.

[Laeth-hakkar]

Hi, strawman fallacy.

It was not a strawman, I refuted your argument, you leveled up, got stronger, and then went to tougher areas to keep leveling up.

Funny, because this is exactly what people were saying when we were talking about the problems that would come from the homogenization issues of scaling. Level squishes, and the eventual removal of levels. In fact, you can find people calling for the removal of levels in the forums already.

You could find people asking for level squishes way before we had stat squishes.