Just remove the alliance already you would fix so many problems with the lore, They can stay in the game as is without changing much about game mechanics, the horde is proof of this. Just remove the alliance and 90% of the story is fixed.
You wanna explain or just sprout something most people would find strange with no reasonings?
I mean, no reasoning is most of this thread anyway.
snickers
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The Kaldorei being unaware of the Tauren’s plight made sense when the Long Vigil was absolute and they were ignoring the world outside of their borders.
They have made expansions of lore since and never cleared that up lorewise to make sense of it, our lore for that bit of the story is still vanilla material.
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Focus wasn’t my point, rather direction was my key point. Even if one has the eyes of a hawk and can see everything within sight in great detail if they’re looking ahead because the sounds of what they’re looking for is coming from in front of them and they don’t notice what is behind them because they aren’t looking back that isn’t incompetence. Especially if they don’t lose anything from not looking behind them.
People spread misinformation on this forum consistently. You yourself have recently complained about people still bringing up the notion that the mana bomb used on Theramore destroyed it in all realities. Misinformation does not peter out specifically because people bring it up again and again to “discuss.”
And I clearly have stated I think your opinion in this case is incorrect in your misconception of what competence in this matter is.
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Using that logic, Thrall’s not part of the Horde. I spent far more time killing orcs than you ever spent killing green dragons.
Anduin and Jaina aren’t Alliance, because of how many human mobs Alliance kill. Genn’s gone too, because of Duskwood, Grizzley Hills, original SFK, etc. Mekkatorque’s gone because Gnomeragon, but it really depends on the number of mobs killed required for someone’s historical connections with a race to be eradicated. Dwarves? Sorry, evicted too, but mostly those Dark Iron.
So the Alliance consists of night elves, pandaren, and draenei. Using your reasoning here.
The Horde? Ain’t no Horde. Think you just mean the tauren and pandaren. Because trolls? Undead? Orcs, blood elves, goblins? Yeah, I’ve been murdering them for sixteen years on my Horde characters for quests and dungeons.
I mean, since faction affiliation is defined by mobs you don’t kill as often now. And not an NPC’s actual history.
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Which kind of goes back to what I said earlier. In that opening scene of Tyrande and Shandris looking over the Orc and Human camps, we know now that Shandris should have piped up and said, “Oh hey, I know what these humbos are. I helped them kill some Trolls that one time, alongside the Highborne”. But she doesn’t, because at the time, the lore was different.
And, like most inconsistencies of the time, it’s never been addressed, except timey-wimey Brox stuff.
Except that those names, all of them, have been officially recognized members of their factions and even said so themselves. While on the other hand No green dragon has ever been a member of the night elves, alliance, or called themselves as such.
But you go ahead with your false equivalencies. Hot takes and clap backs are what it’s all about right?
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Yeah. And to be fair, I do think these kind of things are silly. We can accept why the weirdness came about. Which is why I thought it was a good point.
And to me the scenario is someone with excellent hearing that isn’t noticing a rhino stomping around nearby.
I mean, you’re the one who has noted this is just my opinion. That’s not misinformation, even if you disagree with said opinion. You haven’t alleged (far as I’ve seen) that I’m factually wrong.
On this note, I wasn’t taking issue with you disagreeing with me. But your bringing up ‘on-topic’.
Disagreeing or correcting are different than saying something doesn’t relate to discussion. Again, this is the same as the issue I had then. If someone wants to come in talking about Qiraji, it will stop if no one wants to talk about it. It is whatever to correct or disagree about it, but also different than ‘this isn’t related to lore’ when the point is indeed lore related.
Sure. But I’m not defending it because it is mine, I’m defending it because I think it is correct. I feel like these things are kind of necessary, I wouldn’t hold an opinion if I thought it was incorrect. So I don’t really know what you were trying to say with that comment.
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Except Ysera has said she’s a close friend to the night elves.
Nobody was actually suggesting she is a night elf.
Oh, I didn’t realize that using the number of mobs you killed to determine an NPC’s affiliation wasn’t a false equivalency.
Thank you sir for your valued and utterly unbiased input.
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I never commented on the original argument, just the absurdity of yours.
Jaina claims to be close friends with Thrall, is she a member of the horde? Does she represent them? Is her story Horde story?
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A rhino stomping that would not be unusual nor draw attention. The Tauren have been in territorial disputes with other races since before the War of the Ancients. There’s no reason to believe that latest case would draw the Night Elves’ notice.
I don’t know how you missed all this then:
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My comment is the original argument. Make up your mind.
She said one dude is her friend, not his entire race.
Talk about your false equivalencies.
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I mean, it isn’t like they’ve been in constant warfare since then. Aren’t the Centaur the only ones to actually push them from their homes. Who else have they been in large scale war with since after the Sundering? But I would say all these things should have drawn their attention. Which is what brings me back to incompetence (not noticing) or cruel indifference (not caring). If they knew the Tauren were involved in all these conflicts just getting ignored.
That doesn’t look like factual disagreement. It looks like a difference of opinion. Which part is a fact I have disagreed on?
For the first, whether or not something is incompetence is an opinion. Given it is a subjective measure.
For the second, this is a statement of fact itself. Though my only qualm is that I don’t know whether or not the Night Elves had any involvement in the Barrens. But it isn’t really relevant to my stance.
For the third, also an opinion on the reasonableness of noticing these things with their broad capabilities.
For the fourth, I figured ‘reads’ meant opinion since the word has come up so much.
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Tauren are over all not as peaceful as Cairne and Baine made them look out to be. Their very history originates from the Yaungol territorial disputes with Trolls, and the Yaungol remained hostile to all other races to this day. The Grimtotem remain a collective pain to everyone. Even the Highmountain Tauren fought each other to the point wiping out entire tribes of each other before Huln Highmountain united them.
But most specifically to this case, the Tauren had been fighting the Centaur for some 1,120 years before Warcraft III, as the Tauren themselves are responsible for summoning the Centaur’s mother, Therazane, to Kalimdor. This wasn’t a new occurrence by the time Thrall encountered Cairne.
On even this we disagree, as incompetence is not subjective. Especially in this case to your second, third, and fourth points when you can’t even claim the Night Elves were trying to keep tabs on the Tauren, let alone whether they were successful or not, which would be objective.
Well these ‘disputes’ with the Trolls never became violent, they merely left. Not even sure I’d use that word. But the entire point is pretty irrelevant when I’m asking for specific things.
Sure, but we’re discussing the issue as a whole along that 1,120 period. So for ~10,000 years. 1,120 years of conflict is relatively small over that timespan. It seems purposefully misleading to say ‘they’ve been in territorial disputes since before the War of the Ancients’. Then cite one relatively recent example (which is the entire point of contention) and one that happened before the War of the Ancients.
How isn’t it? It is a subjective value judgment.
Maybe under specific circumstances with agreed upon measures, it isn’t. But that’s not the case here.
Well no, I already stated where they were keeping tabs was irrelevant to my evaluation.
It’s not a very nelfy zone outside of aesthetics, it just has a very large uncanny valley effect where everything in it is derivative of our old lore and looks, or the looks of our allies that arent’ playable.
As for the conversation above, just to throw a wrench into the mix: the main issue with blizzards writing of the Tauren receiving no help is not the night elves themselves, so much as everything else around them that are equally unlikely to look the other way when these perversions of nature appear and start warring with people they relatively respect. Cenarius himself was alive and in Kalimdor, no reason he wasnt involved. It’s sort of a giant plot hole when you think about it, but without it Tauren would be neutral.
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I mean… have you looked at Druids in World of Warcraft?
Night Elves invented druidism. it revolves around the Night Elf demigod, Cenarius. it big teacher is Malfurion Stormrage. By Lore, Night Elves taught Tauren how to Druid. Night elves taught humans to druid too, after interdimensional lycanthropic night elf druids chewed on said humans a little.
And then I guess there are troll druids too who get absolutely no lore whatsoever and sort of like gnome hunters, exist solely to pad out the race / class combinations.
I mean I’m not saying Ysera is “night Elf Lore,” but uhhhhh druidism pretty much IS.
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I am though.
One large problem I see with their writing is that: For thousands of years nothing is happening and they don’t think their world trough. So problems will unquestionably arise.
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