So any plans to fix tank pop?

This part is highly irrelevant as its all based on gear compared to the level of content youre doing

But to answer the question: all of them. Active mitigation and/or CDs have always needed to be up going into a fresh pull

You can definitely still get KSM while using CDs after you’ve taken a lot of damage (I.E. using them in a wrongful manner), but you’ll need much more gear for it this time. It’s a longer grind for the worse players out there, but you can still do it.

But yes, you’re right in the sense that dungeons have gotten more punishing than before. Gone are the days of steamrolling keys without knowing what you’re doing, these days you’ll have to learn and adapt.

Characters have gotten insanely strong too though. Its not a one way street. Dungeons have gotten more punishing as our characters have developed

Sure, but I’ll have to agree with him in the sense that the skill floor (bare minimum performance required) has been raised to achieve similar rating compared to before.

I believe all 20s/10s in tyr and fort was about 2800ish rating in DF, now its about 2600. On top of that things are generally more threatening, and timers are too tight to complete with 30+ deaths this season.

DF was just such a massively easier expansion (at least s2-s4, I didnt play s1 so I wouldn’t know about that). Coming from that gives people a skewed perception of how hard m+ should be.

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I’m still convinced there’s a completely normal amount of tanks (and healers) and people just latched onto these topics for no real reason.

There’s ALWAYS a small amount of those roles compared to DPS. It’s nothing new and queue times haven’t really changed vs previous expansions.

I was also able to form M+ groups just fine on my Healer in DF (S1) and DPS in DF (S4) and on my DPS in TWW (S1).

I can only recall one singular time I actually was waiting for an above average amount of time when forming a group. One.

Well, I think there are just not enough ‘tanks’ to que as fast as peeps want. They could add AI tanks… or Heals too…
How funny though, that you eventually start playing with AI players and don’t know you aren’t playing with other players. NO one really talks to each other, not sure what would be dif about that, sadly.

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Got to make those AI players throw out random passive agressive insults towards each other, to make it realistic!

Jokes aside, we have that. It’s follower dungeons.

Define normal. If you mean same long queues as ever then yeah, nothing has really changed.

I think people just want to even the gap between the instant queues that tank/healers have, and the several minutes long queues DPS has. It’s not an unreasonable ask, but we still haven’t got any successful method to make it happen.

Arbitrary numbers. You also dont have to do as many keys either. I can bypass fort week altogether, get up to 10s, and get 2500 without ever having to slog through tough trash weeks.

And they also removed actual affixes. IMO, skill floor has been lowered, scaling has just been tuned up a bit. If youre someone who interrupts and uses defensives regularly, id argue this is one of the easier seasons (barring DF 3 and 4) to hit 2500.

Which 10s are we talking about, s4 or s3?
I remember all 10s week 1 of s4 being just a tad above 2k, skipping either tyra or fortfied would entirely would mean you had to do all 19-20 keys for 2500 in s4, no?

More so redesigned them, but yeah current affixes are a buff if you actually do them.

Agreed. As I mentioned the perception of m+ difficulty is just skewed after having two easy seasons.

TWW

Nah. The kiss/curse ones you can ignore 3 out of the 4 and get full benefits from. The only one you have to try with it this week with gathering the orbs

100%

Ah, my bad then.

Maybe we misunderstand each other here. I’m specifically talking about the xalatath’s bargain affixes. Those needs to be handled to receive benefit from, and if you fail you have to deal with the consequences. CP and fort/tyr are just kinda there, they don’t really influence your plays anything.

As am i

Healing/dispel happens naturally
An extra add from time to time dies naturally to AoE
CC orbs go down naturally as every pack should be having AoE stops going out.

The only one needing any work are the orbs that gravitate to the mobs. And even then you can ignore half of them because they run into the back of melee players

I’d argue healing/dispels only happens if there’s anything to heal/dispel, which often isn’t the case. The extra add can be summoned at the end of a pull and be forgotten about as you run to the next pack. Stops can simply not be utilized because it’s a boss fight.

All of these are of course ridiculous failures, but they do require some active thinking to handle.

But I feel like we both agree that the affixes are generally just there and gets taken care of by just handling a fight properly, except in some rare cases of mechanical overlap/bad spots for an affix to spawn.

How do you propose that Blizzard ‘fix’ the tank pop?

If people don’t want to tank, no amount of incentives or cajoling by Blizzard will make them tank.

You can fix it by reducing the DPS surplus, as has been stated in this and other threads.

If there’s currently 10 tanks and 1000 DPS, we can help it by making changes that nets us 100 tanks and 800 DPS (some DPS just quit because they didnt like the changes). Now the DPS surplus is much smaller relative to the amount of tanks.

Not possible for the same reason Blizzard can’t force people to tank.

If people want to queue as DPS, they will queue as DPS. Nothing Blizzard can do will stop that, short of not allowing them to queue as DPS at all, which will piss more players off than it pleases. Because no one, and I mean no one, likes being forced to do something they don’t want to do.

Sure it is, you just haven’t read the suggestions, or haven’t reflected upon them.

Again, no amount of incentives will make people tank. Blizzard has tried this before. It didn’t work.

You must be a new player.

I’ve played since cata, not that it matters. You’re still not reading or reflecting, which tells us that you’re just here to be a nay-sayer without any intent of taking any suggestions to heart.

If you’d read anything you’d see I’m not suggesting incentives to make people roll a tank.

Go on with your day, you’re not here to discuss.

Discuss what?

Again, you cannot force people to do what they don’t want to do. I don’t like to heal, for example. You can’t force me to heal a dungeon, and neither can Blizzard. There is literally nothing they can do to make me heal a dungeon. They could offer mythic track-level gear, fully upgraded, and I still wouldn’t heal a dungeon, because I just do not like healing.

It’s the same with tanking.

Any attempt to force me will just result in me not doing dungeons at all. I have no problem not doing dungeons if my only option when doing them is to perform a role I don’t want to do.

There’s a really old saying: “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.” That saying is applicable here. Blizzard can incentivize tanking as much as humanly possible. But they can’t force people to queue as tank to do the dungeon.

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