As much as I love being in control as a tank, and love being able to carry bad players that can’t cc/interrupt, imagine if it was only up to the tank to control and lock down a pull. Most tanks (and healers and dps) aren’t good enough to utilize their toolkit, everyone would be hard stuck at like +5 if only one group member could control the pull. You’d have a ton of complaints about tank not locking down mobs and even more casts going off, and the tank pool for lower keys would shrink due to people not wanting to shoulder the extra cognitive load.
By all means, give more tanks paladin level of control, but don’t remove it from healers and DPS.
To be fair, this is most likely just because control weren’t as much a necessity in DF as it is now. If you hard/soft cc a cast then it was techically interrupted and you didn’t have to worry about it for a while. In TWW it’ll be an instant recast unless you use an interrupt, which increases the need for control through cc in m+.
All in all it’s generally a good change, DF was mostly fighting target dummies with white damage, whereas this season actually challenges you as a group a lot more. It’s more fitting for challenging end game content, and all the way until +12 is rather trivial in s1.
In season 2 they nerf m+ anyway, so everyone gets their sequel to DF s3.
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You can’t get kicked from keys. 
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You should go watch a few videos from DF’s higher keys. You’ll notice it’s not JUST the tank that’s controlling CC’s. Just like it is now, everyone was involved in big pulls.
Group content needs to require the group. Again, if you wanna do everything yourself: Delves
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Don’t need to. I was there.
Here were the most fun pulls in DF I did all of these at +26 successfully in pugs.
- First pull of Nelths Lair. From the landing zone to the 3 bugbear clones at the end.
- Brackenhide just after the first boss. Pulling up to the first rotcaster group.
- Uldaman first pull, from the door to the basilisks.
What did these have in common? The major factor in whether or not these could be pulled was tank skill. One wrong global = dead. These all had some kind of stop or kick that the tank could manage. Successfully completing the pull required excellent tank game play, high damage from the dps, and excellent resource management from the healer.
It was a team effort all the way through, but the limiting factor in whether or not I could pull it was entirely on me. Like I said, the tank nerfs are fine. They lessen what I can pull and survive. Fine. The stop changes neuter my ability to control the pack, and put it in someone else’s hands. That’s why ranking in pugs sucks right now and why dps wait for days in queue.
I don’t expect you to understand the difference.
There is not a tank shortage at high keys though.
There is only a tank shortage at lower keys, and queue content.
Where tanks absolutely can control the pulling and how big they pull. Thats actually one of the main complaints. Tanks pull too fast/big.
Key level doesn’t really matter to the equation. Difficulty is relative. Anyone who pugs can tell you what it’s like out there right now.
The difficulty change and the tank nerfs are irrelevant to the issue.
I once loved to tank. I have every class in the game that can tank. I even Mage Towered all of them successfully back in Legion. Not really sure 100% why but tanking just isn’t fun to do. Too much extra is expected of most tanks for no additional reward. Same can be said for the healers much of the time. They really are thankless jobs, and this game has evolved into making it unfun for me at least.
There was a time that all I wanted to do was tank. I was even a rather decent guild progression raiding MT for some time. There is just no incentive to but me back in that position. Not saying there was before but for me it was a fun role to play.
Yes, Mythic Plus for me had a lot to do with it. For many reasons. The timer, pulls, pull count, dungeon route, and which affixes. Too much to be bothered with to actually enjoy what I was doing. For me at least.
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What is relevant to the conversation is where the tank shortage is.
Queue content and lower key levels.
If we want to “fix the tank pop” we need to identify where it is lacking, and why its lacking there specifically.
If we look at unique class population for keys 12 and up, there are about 260k tanks, 265k healers, and 277k dps per dps slot
14s are a long shot from 20+
You never cleared a 26, but do go on.
The group all used proper CC’s and interrupts. What you described were typical pulls from tanks in 20+ keys
You mean the revert to how it was for 18 years? It’s good that they moved it back. It was letting players think they were better than they actually are.
Gotta say, I think this is the first time I’ve heard of tanks being accused of gatekeeping lol.
Actually laughed out loud at that one.
I’ve never considered myself a gate keeper before but now that I Know, I will surely abuse this power. Kneel before me! And my mediocre tanking skills!
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My raiderio profile is public.
As is yours. Glass house and all. After looking at yours, I think your inability to understand the conversation makes a lot more sense.
Hanlon’s razor.
So what’s next. Straw man or ad hominem?
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Ah it is. My bad, i should have figured it was the Druids are Meta season. And also should have figured, since its par for the course, you always consider the one key thats your highest completion as “high keys” lol.
But again it doesnt change what you described as “god mode pulls because youre a god of a tank” was the typical pull
Yeah it explains a lot. I figured someone who ran literally 5x the amount of keys i did, while making it to the meta patch (i quit like 6-7 weeks into S2) would have something more impressive done.
Anywho back to the topic at hand, nothing you did was out of the ordinary or because of your own ability. Just like it is today in TWW, your group was required to help with interrupts/CCs in order to do the normal pulls.
Again you can go watch those 30+ key pulls and see theres nothing special about what you did, nor were you a one man show lol
So both then. lol. Your forum persona is becoming too predictable for anyone to take you at face value. Trolls gonna troll I guess.
Move those goal posts. Top 0.3% not good enough for you. Lmao. Not that it’s even pertinent to the discussion. Do you even know what we’re talking about?
Ya’ll wanted tanks to be nerfed and celebrated it. You get what you deserve as far as I’m concerned
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I saw a dps CTA on heroic dungeons today, maybe the tank shortage isn’t as bad as doomsayers would have you believe.
If you look at the real numbers there are about 500% more tanks today than 5 years ago. Tank shortage is fake news.
Not really. When youre stuck at 25s and the tops are pushing 33s. No different than being at 15s now when the top are pushing 20s
Yup. You think an entire groups contribution was all your own doing.
It is at the point where the set p might be:
Is there a tank shortage? no, there is not
is there a shortage of tanks willing to be insulted, ignored, told to KYS, etc without the ability to deliver some good old “you did the crime, you do the time” justice? yes.
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Thanks for proving my point. You’ll be going on my list.
Back on topic: They’ve made half a move back towards a good balance for season 2, but they still have work to do if they want tanks to come back. I’ll have to wait and see if it sticks out.
With the recent HP changes, high keys will probably be just as gated by dps as by healing checks from unavoidable aoe mobs. Right now, that means either more tank damage buffs coming or we’ll be on DH or Pally time again. Obviously more changes are likely.
JFC, you’re still doing it.
Yeah, the point is that people that are not tanks need to NOT be pulling. This is where the problem always arises with you. You are either incapable of reading comprehension, or you just deliberately attempt to reframe what people say 180° so you can support your own made-up argument.
See there? That’s what you’re doing. You’re ignoring what is being said and pretending like no non-tanks ever pull. The absolute biggest issue in pug content over the last 2-3 expansions has been non-tanks pulling and causing problems up to and including wipes. But you want to pretend that’s not what is being said and instead, make-up something else entirely.
That’s not what was said, that’s what you are trying to gaslight people into believing that is what was said.
You’re a really crappy community member here because you do this kind of thing all the time and there’s no call for it. It just creates unnecessary negativity and makes you like the back side of a rhino.
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