Which is why their likely plan is to continue developing delves or other role agnostic content to absorb the dps overflow. It’ll be better for m+ to remain intact with reduced engagement than to demolish it trying to balance that which cannot be balanced.
Both options are entirely doable without sacrificing what makes the game the game. Just changing dungeons to be 1/1/4 would be huge progress, while being easy to work into the game.
You could remove tanking and healing without much issue as well, as both roles are mostly contrived. 99% of the work would be changing the tanking and healing specs into a variation of DPS in the new all-DD world.
Definitely entirely wrong about being able to balance support-less M+, but do you really think it’s better to bleed off a ton of players who are essentially trading their preferred activity for getting to actually play the game? The overhead required to play a DD in M+ is pretty insanely unacceptable for a game system, and it’s a direct cost of catering to an extreme minority that enjoy support roles.
There are a ton of players who don’t actually like m+. They only do it because there aren’t any viable alternatives. The goal would be to bleed them off first. In an ideal world, that would be enough to decrease the dps surplus to acceptable levels and everyone would win.
There isn’t any point discussing your suggestion to eliminate roles. That would just be deleting wow and creating a new game. The game would have to be almost dead before Blizzard would be willing to take that risk.
Lol, what? Where’s this coming from? I’ve never heard a tank say they don’t like tanking because of the support aspect.
Tanking is fun. Just because you don’t like it didn’t mean others don’t.
Obviously not a tank player.
Yeah, GW2 did that and it’s terrible. Lol It literally doesn’t work the way you might think.
Increasing the group size so you can get more dps in a group per tank improves the problem without more tanks.
What? What does that even mean? You want a raid group just to do a dungeon? I don’t believe this is the answer… at least not imo.
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Increasing the dungeon group size to a 1tank:1healer:4dps (6man) would be a 33% increase in dps per tank.
Or here’s an example:
With 5 mans if there is 1200 dps looking to do a dungeon than that means you need 400 tanks.
If the dungeon group size was 6 man then the 1200 dps looking to do a dungeon would only require 300 tanks.
Well… I mean, I guess it’s not a bad idea. It would get more DPS groups… I’m not opposed actually.
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6 man is the least different example. We actually used to have ten man dungeons in vanilla.
Actually, most dungeons could be done at a ten man. You used to be able to make a 10 man group to do deadmines. It’s just no one did that because it was a leveling dungeons and if you formed a 10 man group you got barely any experience and couldn’t complete quests.
When the headless horseman first came to SM and you could only summon him once per day, you could actually form a 10 man, farm the horsemen more with a single group and kill him much faster.
There were certain dungeons that were locked at 5 man, dire maul, scholo, and strat. I think they used to be 10 man at some point of vanilla but when I played vanilla they were 5 mans.
Anyway back to the topic at hand.
There’s also no reason not to go beyond 6 man. 10 man dungeons with 1 tank : 2 healers : 7 dps has an even better dps to tank ratio. But you get finishing returns percent wise as the group size goes up so I mention 6 man because you get the most value out of it for the smallest change.
But I do imagine a world with 10 man mythic plus dungeons.
I agree but this same issue happens in delves. You try to que up for your weekly 8s and there are literally 10 groups with one healer and 3 dps but no tanks. I’ve played a few years now, and I must admit this is the absolute worst tank available I’ve ever seen. maybe i was doing the wrong content? who knows. But, my point is this is affecting more than just heroics, M+ and so forth. It’s even happening in LFR if you can imagine! LOL
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Tank pop… is that sort of like doing a desk pop?? 
Making it 6 or 10 man would fix the tank problem but not the in-game imbalance of players enjoyment of tanking and healers.
Truth!
The overall problem is in 2 parts
- The enjoyment of tank and healers are lowering because the treatment and balance in the game’s gameplay
- The reasonability needed to play prefect with more and more mechs out grows the wants to to play those roles.
No one wants the blame and Its more important to rise io over other people’s enjoyment now. Mythic plus have killed that learning phase to Knowledge checks everyone has to know before doing something new.
The only sounded idea is to move m+ out of the casual view than the challenge will be m+ is just for the Transmogs and titles for the mid-high end. Than The average players will have to still the gear prog like normal without stress of m+ and let players learn without timers and other players calling them out on small mistake or not knowing.
Thats what really killing the tank and healers pop.
That’s not what I’m saying. Like at all. I’m saying I want the size of the pulls to be on me. If it’s 1 mob at a time or 30 mobs at a time, it should depend on what I can handle. Physically, cognitively, mentally, etc. I want to be in the drivers seat.
Community treats Tanks like crap
“How come there are no tanks!?”
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Pretty much still the case for WAR. Tanks, in general, in FFXIV right now are nigh unkillable. They’ve got so much damage reduction and self-healing it’s nuts. Done plenty of Trials and Raids where everyone but the tanks die and the tanks proceed to just finish the rest of the fight by themselves.
One thing they could do is increase end of M+ dungeon gold rewards. I did a 10 Dawnbreaker this morning with guildies. I didn’t die at all on my 632 Veng DH. 96 gold repair bill and I got 150ish gold at the end. 50 gold seems a bit low.
The rest of it is just player issues. I tank for guildies all the time as well as friends on my friends list. We do dungeons daily on a multitude of characters. They are known quantities. Even if they are a bit undergeared I know they are competent.
On the other hand got a 630ish resto druid in a 10 NW the other evening that we didn’t time. On my Veng DH I outhealed him on the overall meter. His reason was “lol i’m sorry i’m used to running with BDKs”. These type of people are common enough that pugging has become completely undesireable. I have zero desire to pug so I help my guildiles/friends when they ask for a tank and do everything in my power to avoid pugs. This includes just going to play another game if nobody is on or wanting to do keys at the time i am on.
That’s how horrible pugging is. I’d rather log off as a tank and go do something else than tank for pugs.
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Blizzard made tanks weaker even knowing whats going on, its lizzards laziness of not caring, then we the community start blaming others (tanks)… vicious cyle that lizzard doesn’t break.
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Even when tanks were gods (they still are with the right players) People still didnt want to tank. Its the reasonability tanking what turns people off.
Theres an list on what everyone have to do and tanks and healers had the most to the dps. Its an full on truth facts
As far as end-game 5 man content goes, tanks are expected to know a lot more than anyone else which discourages people from trying the role. You’re the one in the lead and people expect you to know the dungeon best or at least as well as they do.
The enemy forces mechanic in M+ could be changed to be more like the D4 Undercity bar where you don’t have to completely fill it to finish the dungeon. Instead filling the bar and hitting certain breakpoints could give additional drops at the end. Then the group could decide between a full clear and a speed run for completion and the tank wouldn’t be expected to know exactly how many things to pull along the way to be the most efficient. A full clear could just be all trash (except in larger dungeons like Brakenhide or Nok).
Also, add shaman and warlock tanks.
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That’s already how it is. You pull based on what you can mitigate in a given GCD/melee round. Heals can’t heal the dead.
For all other things, sounds like you want a Delve. Where you can do everything you want, based on your skills, by yourself, with no anchors.
TWW was made for you
For all others, group content is focused on needing the group