I’m not arguing any of that. The post you replied too was a reply to someone claiming there was no shortage of tanks in high key, and I explained to him how he was wrong. I have no idea where you’re coming from or why you’re trying to move this conversation somewhere else.
Theres not. Most high keys are ran amongst groups of friends, who arent missing the tank role.
As for keys in the 5-10 range. Still no shortage. Again, with 90k keys ran a day (through all levels), im sure we’re not seeing 100k+ keys sitting for 12 hours at a time waiting for a tank to show up
So the constant complaining about shortage of tank and heals in M+ due to various M+ only aspects are all made up? And the fact that no tank or heal are ever complaining about lack of DPS doesn’t make you realize you’re wrong?
Open the group finder, make some searches for various key levels, and notice the amount of groups sitting there with no tank vs the amount of groups sitting there with no DPS.
Then make your own group as various roles and notice the amount of people applying, and their role.
100% guaranteed you’ll come to the exact same observable fact that everyone else but you notices years ago: there is proportionally less tank and heals for the amount of dps players in the game. That’s a shortage.
Prove me wrong.
1 Like
I also see it every time I open the group finder as well so there’s that too.
Blizzard could start by bringing other tanks up to the effectiveness of Prot Pally. Palladian has 3 interrupts, that is an insane amount of power to control the outcome of trash pulls.
The tank doing more interrupts allows dps to focus more on dps. With the changes to how stuns no longer interrupt this xpac, prot pally is even more op.
All? No. A lot → most, yes.
Are there fewer tanks than dps. Yes absolutely. To call it a crisis and claim a shortage? No.
As a tank able to take my pick of group i want, I’ll still spend my time picking a group. Me being selective doesnt mean im not there to the group.
Im an available tank, im just not signing up for the available groups because im being selective for whatever reason.
I just did. A tank being selective with his group because he has less competition for his spot than a dps doesnt mean the tank doesnt exist creating a shortage.
Theres been times ive logged onto my tank and passed up 10-15-20 groups because they werent what i wanting just to log in and play something else.
Warrior: pummel, intimidating shout, storm bolt, shockwave
1 Like
Yep. The tank shortage is a 100% community caused problem.
1 Like
When you have 181,000 prot paladins, then in second place you have 55,000 prot warriors in +12 and above keys, you have a massive balance problem.
There is more prot paladins in +12 and above keys, then all other tank specs combined. That is not healthy game balance is all I’m saying.
1 Like
Its not balance, its damage output
Paladins always had the same tools from day 1 yet werent meta. Even with all their interrupts
Warriors still mitigate 100% better than paladins. But paladins now do more damage
And if there were no shortage of tanks these groups would be mostly filled an what you would have left to join would be the bottom of the barrel.
The fact that you see all these groups with no tank is direct proof of tank shortage. Do you see tons of groups looking for DPS and DPS players having the luxury of being picky with what groups they apply to? No, because the overpopulation of DPS is forcing them to apply to anything they can, because there is no shortage of DPS. If the population of tank and dps was proprotionally similar, they would be able to do what you described in your tank role. But they cannot. Because there is no shortage of DPS. Because there is a shortage of tank.
You did not prove me wrong, you proved me right, you’re just not smart enough to realize it, or too obsessed with trying to win an argument you lost before the first reply. I told you earlier you were wrong, not for the lols, it’s because you are. Objectively speaking.
EDIT: We can argue semantics all day about what word has the most accurate description of the amount of tanks lacking in the game, no one speaks like that, they say shortage to mean there’s not enough tank to group with all the DPS, because that’s the factually true state of the game (and has always been), that’s all.
2 Likes
Lets simplify this
Find the total amount of tanks that have touched m+, and on average, how many keys are run per day?
Does the total number of tanks > the number of keys per day? Then theres no tank shortage
Theres about 8 million tanks overall
At peak there was 2.4 million keys ran a week
M+ particiaption has dropped to about 25% that number, and we’ll assume the same for tanks.
So thats about 2 million tanks to run 70k keys a day over all levels.
There isnt a shortage of tanks, theyre just being selective.
Wrong. Again. Me not signing up for your group doesnt mean im not there.
Thats because they’re competing against themselves at much higher numbers per spot. Tanks dont have that level of competition amongst themselves so they dont have to apply to anything they can.
Its not. I showed you the numbers. Theres more than enough tanks. Just because they dont sign up for your group doesn’t make them nonexistent
Literal definition of population imbalance, which is what people call shortage of [insert least played role]. Once again, LITERALLY, IN THE REAL SENSE OF THE WORD, proving me right.
If there was more tanks, they would not be able to be selective, right now we DO NOT have an influx of tanks just all being selective and not running keys, there’s plenty of good looking groups not finding tanks for a long time, why?
Because this is fundamentally wrong ^
The amount of keys ran per day is limited to the amount of keys the least played role is willing to do per day, if there is more of the least played role, aka if there is no shortage, this number would simply go up. You’re trying to convince me that the current amount of keys ran per day could go up if there was even more DPS players. Completely disconnected from reality. There’s tons of groups full of DPS, just need a tank to join in and that would be one more key added to the day in your stats. This number is limited to the amount of tank, because tanks are the limitation of that number, because there is less of them. Which is what people call a shortage. They are not all looking at the list and seeing all these groups higher rated than them and refusing to join, that is a fallacy you’re trying to materialize to make your point out of nowhere. No one does that, the reason these groups have no tank is because there is not enough tank. Yes they are being selective, but one tank can pick 1 out of 10 groups, and there is always 10 groups ready for 1 tank, there is not 10 tanks looking at 10 tankless groups like you are claiming.
2 Likes
This has been an issue since 2004. Its 100% community, dps and healers will always outnumber tanks. No amount of balancing, incentives or otherwise will change this short of removing the the “role trinity” which most players would rather not see as its foundational to how the game was designed from launch until now. Role a tank yourself.
1 Like
This, and I don’t think a lot of people understand this.
The people who don’t notice and/or dont care about the wait don’t come to the forums making threads saying “queue time is fine.”
To the thread creator… The only people making threads are the ones upset. I’m sure you’ve heard “vocal minority.”
Wrong again.
This comes down to available groups. Everyone is given a key, yet not everyone starts their own group.
Tank shortage would require fewer tanks than available groups. But thats not the case. Role imbalance can still happen without there being a tank shortage. And it also accounts for dps fighting for the same spots at a higher rate than tanks, without a tank shortage being present.
Your inability to discern that little fact is whats keeping you from comprehending the matter at hand.
No. If there were more groups started (which my design would come from.DPS players as a whole). But with being able to be selectivr those groups need to meet a criteria.
If im.looking for a 10 DB to fill vault, im avoiding every other 10 key besides DB. Doesnt mean im not there, doesnt mean i cant be a tank filling those 7 other groups for other dungeons, just means im being selective. There being a shortage means that instead of me choosing to not join your group, i just simply dont exist. Which isnt the case
Theres a lot more that goes into it than simply “lack of tanks”
Could wait around for 30 minutes for a 12 NW, but have 3 tanks signed up for my 12 DB in minutes. Its not like those tanks just materialized and got added to the pool because a DB key was posted and they disappear.from that pool when the key is done.
They’re always there. Theyre just selective
1 Like
That doesn’t mean there can’t be a systematic solution though.
That’s right. More DPS start group than the available number of tanks. This has been true for 20 years, it’s not changing today and certainly not based on your arguments.
This is what we have right now, objectively speaking. This is what we’ve had for 20 years, objectively speaking, factually observable too and reported by blizzard themselves many times.
Objectively wrong again.
Semantics, the observable fact that there is less tank than DPS is what the WoW community calls tank shortage. If you want to argue semantics about your definition of tank shotage we can do that too but it does not apply to the issue at hand being there factually is less tank than the amount of groups available since most groups are started by most DPS players, so even if:
it doesn’t mean anything because a lot of people never run their own key and 1 key is used to make 5 people run a dungeon. The amount of key available is entirely irrelevant to the argument.
This is what people call a tank shortage. This is not a behavioral issue, they do this because there’s too many of them, tanks don’t have to do this because there’s more groups than tanks. If there was no shortage then tanks would have the same kind of competition for groups, which is not happening right now because there’s disproportionately more dps than tank, which is what people define as tank shortage.
Insanely wrong and delusional. If you’re tanking for 1 dungeon you’re not tanking for the other 7, that’s called tank shortage. If the other 7 haveto wait for you to finish your dungeon to come join them, that’s called tank shortage as well. The only situation where this is not called tank shortage is if at the moment that you join your 1 group, 7 other tank join the other 7 groups in the same way they could all find DPS just as quickly to fill their groups and start running. Waiting for tanks longer than DPS is a shortage of tanks. 1 tank for 7 groups is a shortage of tanks. The only not shortage of tank situation is the same amount of tanks for the available groups. This situation has not happened in this game for 20 years, stop pretending it’s happening today, that’s objectively wrong and factually observable.
True, there’s also a lack of healer and also an overpopulation of DPS. Anything resembling “dps waiting for tanks to run a dungeon” is what people refer to as tank shortage. With more tanks they couldn’t be so selective and would have to get in a group instead of waiting, the only thing that allows the current amount of tanks to be selective is because there’s as shortage of them. Nothing else.
You claim it, you prove it. Show me the insane amount of tanks availale but just looking at the groups and waiting hours to find the one messiah of group comp they’ve been looking for all day. That is one of the most insane delirious crap I have ever heard in my life. And they’ve been doing this for 20 years? LOL man seriously. Never seen anyone insist so much on being wrong.
There’s is another solution. Increase the dungeon group size! So you get more dps per tank in a group.
I main a tank in dungeons. I notice it for dps and post about it.