I can’t be the only one feeling this way in pvp. I mean the fact that we only have like 10 posts in the last 24hrs even shows people aren’t playing rogue.
Our dps is crap right now
Our survivability is crap, an extended fight causes us to lose
Our stuns are DRed all the time
Our blind is nerfed
Our sap is useless unless we waste sprint to get it off in time
Our dps is crap compared to other classes
We got a smoke bomb and a deathmark that can be cleansed in 1 GCD.
What is going on with rogues???
Recommendation:
10% dmg inc
Make deathmark a self buff
Change garrote back…
Just got elite in shuffle as assa, just aoe dot everything and you win. Run cheat death and a BM trinket to be a lil more tanky, if you aren’t kill target get a restealth here and there.
I will say I don’t agree with the assa nerfs last week, but w.e
Its because assa design is terrible, last week nerfs was uncalled for and the only thing you can do right now is to play aoe mythic+ rotation in PvP because our Single target sucks. They need to replace the rogue dev, because he has literally no clue of what he is doing. I.E. Deathmark without dispel protection for the entire expansion and on top of that its still nerfed by 50% since S1 patch 10.0.7.
I always laugh, how cringe it is when I see hybrids HP going up during KS and Deathmark on them.
Ever since the rework, assassination has felt like utter garbage in PvP. The energy regen sucks. I know people say you are supposed to use thistle tea, but I run out of charges so fast and become energy starved that I cannot do anything. Having EVERYTHING revolve around Kingsbane damage is horrible.
I have been maining this spec for years and never has it felt like it does in pvp right now. I cant stand to play it. The fact that I have to dot everything and keep the dots rolling just for energy regen and still not have enough energy is very frustrating. I know there are some changes in TWW where we are losing Shadow Dance in the class tree (thank god!), I still fear that assass pvp in 11.0+ is going to be as bad as it is right now.
Ah yes the ever increasing bar to facilitate conversation.
See wording it this way is the closest to a reasonable change I’ve seen. Everyone wants dispel immunity which is overkill & unnecessary. The spec is still clearly doing fine given the volume and frequency of complaints about assassination rogues from other classes.
Having some kind of benefit to the rogue for deathmark getting dispelled, like how VT, UA, and other functional DoT’s have protection is an interesting idea. But IDK What form it could take.
Maybe like OG Vampiric Touch. If it gets dispelled the afflicted target takes a large sum of damage immediately.
Assassination dearly needs Relentless Strikes. It’s been a top complaint of mine since they redid the talents and removed access way back when.
it’s not enough. Sorry, but it just isn’t. those are spammable abilities which can be immediately reapplied after being dispelled, DM is a 2 min CD. If a dispelled UA does the amount of damage it currently does when dispelled, the proportionate amount DM would need to do when dispelled would be enough to kill 5 people.
What it can be is a 20 second debuff on the target that cannot be dispelled, which applies a bleed, which can be dispelled. Say a pala pops divine shield, the bleeds go away, but the debuff remains. After 8 seconds of immunity, the DM bleed reapplies itself, and it is up to the rogue to reapply garrote and rupture and whatnot.
This is functionally the same as any other 2 minute CD, where an 8 second immunity stops all damage, but the opposing player still has 12 seconds left of that CD afterwards to pump.
This is the most fried request for a buff ive ever read in my life. Im sorry but its just entitled.
Nerfs suck but by all non rogue accounts assassination is perfoming above average. Rogues with our personal perspective obviously feel differently when we die to any melee that looks twice at us & have our burst negated easily, but thats the nature of the game. Everything you can blame deathmark on applied to vendetta as well apart from bleed dispels, so naturally i undrestand the frustration of having your big bleed dispelled but i dont think a unique immunity to dispels is the answer.
Other classes reacging appropriately is the bread and butter of PvP. Your goal is to have deathmark when they dont have bubble or to have deathmark before they get bubble back. Or to cover your mark.
You want a 20s dot? Theres no chance in hell your TTK is 20s. If you dont kill in your 6s, 10s window you deserve to have DM dispelled. Its not pve, the go is over. Just focus on what you can do next.
Homogenization is the enemy. Revel in your unique strength rather than envying your peers.
Yes it comes with weakness but thats fine. Clearly. I swear dont make me play this trash expansion just to use a fallacy to prove my points.
Rogue isnt other classes. 8 seconds later they’re still on DR. We kill in stuns. The kill window isnt running at people flailing around with fragmented uptime.
it’s not unique though.
you see it as a unique immunity to dispels. but other classes do not have to worry that their 2 minute 20 second dmg CD can be negated by the press of 1 button.
some of their damage can be negated by immunities, some of their damage can be reduced by walls, but not all of it, and certainly not with 1 button press.
so in this sense, DM is actually unique in it’s weakness.
and you’re talking to me about fried takes. bro, this is the goal with all damage CDs.
which unique strength is that?
used to be that way, maybe. nowadays most classes have access to far more CC. look at DH and warriors with 2 stuns, aoe fears (of longer duration and lower CD in case of warriors that do not break instantly on damage), banishes, disarms, you get the picture.
and what about druids spamming clone? you still really, really think rogues are the masters of CC in today’s game?
Never said they were but druids spamming clone isnt unique to us. Everyone has to deal with getting peeled on their go.
The reality that rogues kill in stuns hasnt changed and i like how you avoided any rebuttal against the actual kill window ans assassination TTK.
Reality is we dont need a 20s dot in pvp to kill something. Either they die dueing the go, or a cooldown saves them. If it takes 20s to kill something after these cc nerfs nothing will die. Nothing has changed. You’re complaining over the crumbs, the leftovers.
If you want to say the nerf wasnt justified thats an entirely different conversation and maybe has some merit if you feel too weak.
But its not becauase your 2 minute cd doesnt persist through immunities.
Dispel is a valid concern and i think warrants some discussion about protection or at the least a form of deterrent. But the rest i think just displays a lack of understanding.
Us killing in stuns is still the bread and butter, other classes having new micro or traditional spammable doesnt change that.
the reality is that there is no spec that does not kill in stuns
the game is not 1v1. cc healer stun kill target go has is as old as wow and not at all unique to rogues.
is that right? how about the other specs in the game. is any spec coming to mind where you think “it needed 20 seconds to get that kill” ?
If not, why not just make all 2 min CDs dispellable? whether by offensive or defensive dispels. How is it that other classes would be gimped by that, but assa somehow isn’t?
TTK for assa, stuns or not, is nothing special. everyone has burst nowadays. and if you talk about actual kill presses needed for the setup, assa is no where near the top.
This supports my point of rogues not needing dispel protection more than it argues against it tbh.
Right. But its still the bread & butter. Fundamentally nothing has changed was my point.
They used to be, & id love to.
I dont think i said other classes wouldnt be gimped. But classes need to be different. If we all had the same fomulatic way our cooldowns worked thered be virtually no point in picking a class outside of cosmetics.
Ill get back to you after playing some. Maybe the lived experience is different but i think we just fundamentally value different things in gameplay based on the buffs you want
Outlaw is certainly falling off to sub levels of “mostly played for setup comps where it works but its damage is very low”. Combination of some heavy handed nerfs and just scaling issues outlaws always had over an expac. Plate lobbies (or evoker lobbies) feel very cursed again damage wise.
Sin on the other hand, is a top 4 meta specs right now especially in solo shuffle and is very very strong. But its playstyle definitely leaves something to be desired for many, and its still very annoying to play in some lobbies (looking at you double and TRIPLE paladin lobbies).
Sub is just in the same place its been. Lowest raw damage rogue spec with no sustain pressure and the highest setup requirement but still workable in very good players hands.
All in all, a very meh season. But I’d hardly call rogue bad, and using representation metrics is always difficult because rogue has always been one of the least played classes in the game generally, even when its very strong in pvp.
Outlaw and Assassination when fully geared will be fine in PVP. Sub normally needs full gear to be optimal in PVP, but I do not think it will make a difference this time around.
bro what are you on about ? so, more enemies, more chances of it being dispelled, less need for dispel protection?
the strat itself has not changed, but now almost all classes have access to it.
ok, so in principle, you have nothing against homogenization, as long as it’s the kind you like.
you didn’t, and that is my point. assa is the only spec that is.
if you look across the game, you will notice that the general rule is that offensive CDs are of a longer duration than defensive CDs and/or on a shorter CD.
This makes sense, if defensives were longer or more frequently available, nothing would die.
So while it is acceptable that you can negate 8 seconds of someone’s burst every 3.5 minutes, then having to deal with it again 2 minutes later, pressing 1 button to dispell all debuffs on a 1 minute CD and removing ALL burst assa has is not.
The damage of DM does not come from DM itself anyway. It comes from duplicated garrotes and ruptures. Keep those dispellable, but allow them to be reapplied and do 2x damage as they do now for the remainder of DM.
You can still shut down the burst by dispelling the bleeds and CCing or running, not allowing the rogue to reapply them as long as DM is still ticking, which allows plenty of counterplay.
so, more enemies, more chances of it being dispelled, less need for dispel protection?