I gave you my source. Regardless, the lore is still the fees were excessive and the reason the Defias even rebelled was because they thought they wouldn’t be paid, and Varian did want to pay them at least, just not their excessive sums.
Wikis aren’t a source of lore.
If there’s something on a wiki and I cite that, will you believe it?
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mental image of Eddard Stark flipping through ‘The Lineages and histories of the Five Dragonflights of Azeroth’ with an increasingly concerned look upon his face generated…
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oh honey, Zerde would believe anything you cite so long as it falls within the general bounds of “Alliance good”
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Keep the debate flowing folks. I will get the Popcorn.
In this particular case the Alliance are “good” the only to blame here is Onyxia.
No the alliance is not always good. Your justification is flimsy and can’t hold water.
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I didn’t say it was always, but in this instance it is and the only one to blame for the defias issue is onyxia to the point former defias members have returned to Stormwind by the grace of Anduin’s amnesty.
The Stonemason Guild wanted to be paid for their hard work. The nobles and Varian refused. It is very easy here. Stop protecting the people in power.
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Actual Varian did want to pay them but Onyxia convinced the defias they would not be paid, hence why they rioted. So yeah, Varian will not be considered the villain in that story, in fact I would say neither should the defias any and all blame should lay at Onyxia.
announcing “I’m going to pay you” and committing to it would probably do a lot to pour water on the riots, just sayin
Also the nobles outright told the workers they were gonna get stiffed
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I’ve seen enough Zerde posts in my life to know, lol.
Just funny to see him trapped. Either yes he’d believe me and I can make any claim. Or he wouldn’t which reinforces that he was wrong.
Yeah, actually doing it maybe would be relevant, lol. Dragging his feet.
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Not if onyxia convince them it was empty promises before Varian could settle the matter. Again, the story is quite clear, it is not that Stormwind wasn’t going to pay, its that Onyxia convinced the Stonemasons they wouldn’t be paid.
I don’t believe you. I am willing to at least give some credence to the wowwiki if for no other reason they have generally been good sources of info.
But my example was I’m citing something unsourced on the wiki.
You know, what you did when you were wrong
.
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its almost if any mention of Varian being willing to pay was just to clumsily shield him from the implications of the cause of the crisis.
I think it’d have been more interesting if he’d have had to bring some self interested nobles to heel, but that’s Alliance-infighting and we can’t have that. Or like I said upthread, have the kingdom be broke due to the war and utterly reliant on Vassal financing to do anything. Varian’s hands being utterly tied when the nobles refuse to pay for something they committed to would be a story beat that would entirely absolve him of any guilt in my eyes (though he should still have a reckoning with them later).
Even so, he’s definitely not the villain of the story, he’s far less culpable than the vague faceless stormwind nobility who have repeatedly botched things up but never get comeuppance because they’re basically a narrative tool to take away blame from the Wrynns.
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I think the ‘funny’ thing is they’d intentionally adjusted it as time has gone on. Like I think you could certainly say he was to some degrees a lesser villain in it before, when he wasn’t actually around. Because really he didn’t really do much as a king to fix anything when it happened in the original lore.
Then they added, oh Onyxia also meddled.
Then they added, oh he actually tried to mediate.
Then they added, oh he actually was willing to pay.
So yeah, despite being The King, they’ve certainly tried (awkwardly) to distance him.
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There has never been any lore that ever tried to pin the issue on Varian, even earlier entries state it was always the House of Noble not wanting to pay, now this is probable because they didn’t exactly know what to do with Varian yet, but now they wanted him to be heroic, it was clear he shouldn’t get blame for it.
Ah, the Stormwind House of Lords, or as I call them, Schrödinger’s Nobles. Their only action ever in the lore was to justify the Defias existing. They then go radio silent for thirty years.
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The issue was partly on Varian originally because he was the king.
The guy who has the job of running the kingdom.
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Not true! They also started the Gurubashi war by encroaching on Zandalari land to expand their estates against Baratheon Wrynn’s wishes, and they shielded Genn from punishment when Anduin was mad about that whole “re-igniting the faction conflict despite swearing an oath to my father and being ordered by me not to do that exact thing”.
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