No, I think you will always see the top end of players doing crazy content. Most CE raiders are doing 14s, but half of those runs fail.
and 95% of players will never time a +20 key (or whatever difficulty is similar to mythic endbosses).
The idea is to make loot drop in proportion to the difficulty done. If someone wants to do 20 hours of extremely hard M+ content in a week and end up with a pile of amazing gear from it I truly do not care. In fact, I’d probably watch them on stream and then try to emulate them.
I’m going to get CE in the next 6-8 weeks if not sooner. Do you really think any of this directly affects me? I am saying this because I want the community to be better. I want to gear alts, true, but mostly I want my casual friends to be able to perform. I know some extremely talented players that simply cannot put in the hours necessary to prog raid yet have no problems doing keys which end up being top-100 runs (+30s at the end of BFA, etc).
Those players deserve a path of endgame progression, same as PvP, same as raid.
If it turns out that the loot rewards are too numerous then I’m fine with reducing the quantity of them, however it should still be accessible. Maybe the solution is to increase Mythic raid loot or bonus rolls. Maybe the solution is that Raids and M+ both give a currency which can be exchanged for loot from a vendor, with higher difficulty content giving exponentially more currency, and higher ilvl gear costing exponentially more. Then give exclusive transmogs/mounts/whatever to Raid and M+
I don’t know what the perfect solution is, I just know the problem.
Is this a late April Fools joke. Short of walking around with WM off what content as a casual are you doing. Treasure chests lol
Are you serious Plzzzzz
I think you summed it up nicely. It’s like what I think a few have been saying in here for casual players, some it’s time commitments, some it’s skill, some it’s whatver the reason the truth is once you get to a certain iLvl you have to adopt to what the game is at that particular moment in order to go further. Whereas if you compare it to how you’ve been leveling your character it’s a much easier free-flowing content rewarding experience.
This race to the top just to be with others I think doesn’t help a lot of players. That’s also why a lot of players like the idea of solo grinding to get stuff that feels rewarding because right now only players who like endgame PvP/Raids/M+ Playstles get to reap those benefits. It’s literally have this mage. I tried doing the raids but I’m just not a fan of keyboard kung-fu you have to preform. PvP is even worse too many things to click too fast. I just don’t know what to do with this toon right now. So I let him sit, collect dust, and then just hop from M+, PuG raids, and the dailies then hop off and not play while leveling and exploring vast amounts of content on my alt.
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Where is this narrative coming from? Hardcore players didn’t ask for this. Anyone in a Mythic raiding guild or even an AOTC guild hates the loot changes for PVE. It’s locking them out from getting into the content they actually want to do and preventing the individuals from hitting ilvls that allow for a break and moving onto alts.
The people who asked for harder gear acquisition are the Wrath/TBC Boomers who can’t just move on and play Classic. This post on the subreddit is a perfect example of it (800+ votes and still climbing): https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/kd0z7v/this_is_the_first_expansion_in_a_loooooooong_time/
Blizzard is now trying to appeal to these people in Retail because of how successful Classic has been instead of accepting that the playerbases are fundementally different and should have their own games.
This also has a lot of overlap with those that are jealous of/loathe progression players because they are on the cusp of that kind of play but can’t/won’t put in the effort to get there. Now that all PVE palyers are facing a drought they don’t have to feel bad about falling behind. This post and some of the comments are a good example: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/kcld0u/dont_be_surprised_when_blizzard_brings_back_titan/
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Lol at this expansion being alt friendly. Mythics and Raiding take a loooong time.
If you can’t do a dungeon, finish 3 WQs or kill a rare or find some treasure – ALL of which are viable ways to finish callings, then dropping the bar for everyone so that you are pandered to would mean that the game would become trivial for most people.
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What!?
Raiders, elitists, and casuals had a huge impact on PvP not PVE gear raining from the sky.
The casuals complained and we got Warmode
The Elitist cried about ilvl and PvP gear vendors were tossed out the window
The Raiders wanted their raid gear to be just as good in PvP and those special PvP abilities on gear were left to burn.
The PvP player is the step child of WoW even with reduced gear drops they are trying to force the remaining few deeper into raiding and the like for gear
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HAHAHAHA PvE tears? I love the change, get yall soft butter skin in pvp please!!! Can’t wait to use you as a squeaker toy.
I was very interested in hearing what you had to say until it literally just became a hate post on hardcore players honestly.
Yes, 100% what you are saying has some merit but there ARE logical reasons to some of the changes they’ve made and you’ve just decided to chalk up to “THE HARDCORE PLAYERS RUIN EVERYTHING.”
Being mainly a casual player, while I respect anyone’s experience-based opinion, I am not a fan of SL. However, I’m addicted so I still play. Lol. I loved BfA even when it made me growl. SL is completely frustrating. The rewards vs. the time spent leave me feeling disappointed. To even drop a pet or a toy that can be used outside SL makes most smile. BfA (to me) seems more balanced for raiders and casuals alike. If you wanted the higher gear, you ran the higher content. The highest key I ran was a 6 or 7 & my gear upgrades came from conquest caps. On my main only. (I am a terminal noob & try to avoid the toxic, hateful players found in lfr as much as possible. Even within guilds.) So my alts are failing severely in SL & the amount of gold I’m spending to boost their ilvls to almost sorta mediocre is racking up. In BfA you could achieve a fair ilvl without running the heavier content. In SL, so far, I feel as if I’ll be forced to run the hardcore content if I want even an “eh” upgrade. I definitely play a LOT less than I did in BfA. Again, I am not looking for anyone to agree, just stating my experience/thoughts so far with SL.
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If you’re trying to prove a point and convince people of your stance, maybe don’t include disparaging and obviously fake quotes. You paint raiders as some sort of boogieman to casual players likes it’s Us vs. Them.
Post is a joke and refuses to put bias aside, try again on another toon.
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202 people liked this for no other reason than OP taking the time to format his whining in the format of a table. Almost all of this is either completely made up or anecdotal.
I feel like if they were listening to hardcore players they wouldn’t have nerfed Sub rogues so hard.
I know I don’t represent everyone. I don’t like raiding. I feel it’s a waste of time. The trash in there only exists to waste time. The running back and forth between bosses just wastes time. I like hitting bosses and have no problem working on them, but the running and trash humps make the endeavor twice as long for no good reason, so I stopped raiding after Legion thanks to mythic+.
In mythics, trash matters (i.e., how fast you can get through it and the % of it you kill). It’s not just there to be there. I loved pushing mythics, even though I’m a casual of middling ability. That’s part of what was great about it; you could find your level and push. However, the new SL system just sucks all the fun out of the game for me. I abhor Torghast. I hate it. I loathe it. I resent having to grind it for soul ash. And when I run into an end boss I just cannot overcome or didn’t buy the right stuff to overcome or I’m not on the right class to overcome it, then the HOUR I just spent in there goes to waste. So what? right? Don’t run it. right? Well…I can’t not run torghast. It’s like Horrific Visions except it’s the ONLY way to build your legendary. And these legendaries…they’re not optional. They include core ability tweaks that are absolutely necessary for pushing mythics and raiding (why? b/c everyone else has it, so if you don’t, you can’t run with the pack). So what now? Bang my head against the wall in Torghast? Pay someone to drag me through each week? Find a guild group to drag me through? Who wants to be “dragged through” content? I mean…ppl do it all the time. I know. But I’m not desperate for a title, especially one I didn’t earn. But I do want to play the game.
I really and truly resent being de-facto forced to mine Torghast. It feels like a very long, time-consuming horrific vision that you either win or walk away from with nothing.
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Balance is always garbage 
Failing how? I have a few alts at 60 now that aren’t geared up, but that will come with time. Who are you racing with? What do you consider “eh” level gear? (We may have different opinions of what 'eh" is) I’ve geared up my main to a great “run casual content” ilvl without running any hardcore content at all. I’m not trying to be combative, just wondering where you’re feeling this pressure in-game?
nah the soul ash is not easy enough to come by. The rank 1 are around 25k on my server.
Or removed the coins. Hardcore players need more gear than any other players, they’d be the first to complain about the coins going away.
OP clearly has no idea what she’s talking about, she just wants to express her feels, because crying and other such bs.
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all good changes.
I’m not a hard core player either.
People should get used to failing, and then trying again, being glad they have the knowledge to overcome teh challenges.
This is part of why wow databases ruined the game and goes way back to why the game has steadily gotten worse since vanilla. There’s no adventure left in the game so people look up how to beat things and since there’s no discovery its not interesting if you lose. Databases made only winning and constant progression/powergain interesting.
Torghast is hard… thats why the rewards for doing it are the best pieces in the game.
Constantly getting armor reduces the enjoyment of a real upgrade which is a primary enjoyment factor of RPGs.
5 man groups are easier to coordinate than larger groups so larger group activities should reward better armor.
A simple world quest should reward nominal prizes for nominal difficulty and they are solo.
most of your arguments are not even common ones. The last one about rading only giving good gear I’ve never heard before with many hours spent on forums.
Some of the reason they have to standardize gear progression is because they want to make fun powerful pieces and in order to do that you have to have fairly uniform access to large amount of power so that certain people dont get lucky early and then own others for months. Big powerful legendaries make the game fun but if its a random drop that can make content unbearable because you have to put it on farm and still have no idea when you might see the drop. Otherwise they have to make weak legendaries.
