I know you’re not serious, but this is actually something that happened in previous BFA M+ seasons. Every competent M+ group, bar maybe a select few here and there, ran a bare minimum of one Rogue and frequently doubled up or even tripled up on the Outlaw Rogues. Warrior+RDruid+Rogue+Rogue+Rogue wasn’t just an option back in the Reaping days: it was one of the best options because Outlaw has a kit tailor-made to crawl through dungeons.
The seasonal affix we have nowadays, Awakened, was specifically designed so groups wouldn’t need to always run an Outlaw Rogue for every form of high-end M+ content.
Shroud was and is so absurdly powerful that Awakened was specifically designed with it in mind, and even after Awakening was added Rogues are still one of the most common DPS specs in the meta because the only thing better than being able to skip most of the packs you don’t need for count with Obelisks is skipping all of the packs you don’t need with a combo of Shroud and Obelisks.
Actually, making them interchangeable will be what makes the skips required because they will be so trivial to swap to at any time.
You think pugs are going to be rejecting 5 tanks in a row so they can all venythir skip a pack you could also skip with a gate/shroud/death skip/invise pots??
The necrolord shield for 50% of your hp won’t be powerful on a large burst tyrannical boss? Letting maybe a class survive something they otherwise wouldn’t?
so i just found out that void elves have a teleport racial… just curious… how many velf only m+'s actually get run?
i mean sure the CD Is shorter on the venthyr one, and its got an extra 5 ft of range, but thats not realistically gonna make that much of a difference most of the time would it? After all you still need %.
this is basically the same point i made earlier about warlocks… sure it lets you do some clever skips here and there, but its hardly mandatory.
It’s amazing how you guys just seem to forget how when there is something everyone can have that makes things faster and more efficient, it becomes almost mandatory, even if other people don’t like it, just look at raider io, it became something that, if you don’t use it and have a high enough score, you are cornered into making your own groups or hoping to find a no io group, which are few and far between, this will be the same thing if it stays as is
How can you not see the obvious detriment to the game the system in its current form would be, being hardheaded online for lulz is fine and dandy but trying to defend a system that will hurt the game if it goes unchanged is essentially watching the game kill itself further knowing you could have tried to help it be better but your stubbornness for not wanting to be wrong won’t let you
People keep saying that you’re going to be viable in all kinds of content even if you don’t choose the best one for PvP if you’re focusing on raiding. I don’t have to be in the top 1% for me to feel that one covenant is something I’d enjoy more in BGs than if I were raiding. Why do I have to be locked in something that I feel is only enjoyable for one type of content? This isn’t always 100% about maximizing a character. But if I feel like something will help ME, why am I being locked into something? It’s ridiculous.
And that’s not even bringing playing different roles on the same character into the discussion. We all know tanks and DPS and healers all have their own goals for their specific role. So we’re just expected to be locked into one role?
Half agree. They’ll be required regardless or not of them being trivial to swap simply because of how powerful Door is.
Depends on the design of the dungeon, but yeah, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for that to happen.
Invis Pots, Shroud and Battle Resses (including Soulstones) all have pretty long cooldowns. Doorway does not.
The problem with this argument is that while a 50% shield is pretty big (and that’s assuming best case scenario), most abilities that would actually make that useful are completely avoidable.
It’s far better to not get hit by stuff like Cragmaw’s Puke or Yazma’s Spiders than it is to soak it with a Necro shield.
Doorway has a longer range and much shorter CD. It’s also a lot faster to get from Point A to B.
But generally Nelves are far stronger for M+ simply because Shadowmeld is busted as hell and breaks like half the mechanics.
But in Raids, Velfs had some very interesting applications, especially on Jaina and G’huun. Even if your class couldn’t normally run orbs on G’huun, Velf racial made it possible.
Also a major difference between Covenants and Racial or Class abilities is that everyone can have access to the Covenant abilities. You can’t be a Velf Druid, DH or Paladin, which knocks out some of the most powerful M+ classes already, but all of those classes can have access to a Venthry skip.
Depends on the dungeon.
In something like Workshop? Yeah, it doesn’t really matter because you basically gotta kill everything for % anyway.
But a ton of dungeons have way, wayyyy more than 100% in trash. You can hit 100% before the second boss in Sethralis if you really wanted to (the total dungeon gives 170%). Junkyard has about 220% trash, Freehold almost 300%.
Being able to pick and choose what packs you take for % is a big deal when it comes to making an efficient route.
Except Gateway isn’t a Teleport. It’s functionally a leap.
They might sounds similar, after all, both Heroic Leap and Blink get you from Point A to B, right? But they have vastly different applications.
Gateway doesn’t allow many skips because you still can aggro mobs while using it (you can also still get hit by mechanics as well). The same is not true for the Doorway.
So one of the simplest examples is that while you could use a Doorway to skip the pack before Vol’kal, you could not use a Gateway to do so.
But if you’re still thinking that skipping packs isn’t a big deal, remember that Rogues Shroud allows you to skip packs in a similar vein, and Blizzard had to design an entire affix around Rogues not being mandatory.
Another great point, you cannot tell me that every covenant ability and signiature ability will perform just as good for every spec of every class no matter the covenant
So much this, thank you for taking the time to type out all the obvious points they are willfully ignoring, I couldn’t be bothered for I do not suffer the ignorance of fools gladly.
Except that is exactly what blizzard is trying to make us believe, they want us to think they can make every covenant viable for any class and spec, when they simply cannot, they don’t want the abilities to be their own talent system because they think they can balance them all to make any covenant equal for and class and spec
The point they are making is that when you have four choices available and only one is notably far and above the best, the “choice” is a no-brainer. That’s like having money to buy a nice car and your options are three junkers and a brand new one. Is there really a choice?
Yes exactly, as it stand the covenant system will punish you if you choose the covenant you like thematically by not being optimal, and if you choose the optimal covenant you might not like the thematics, sure there will be people who like the thematics of the optimal covenant, but that covenant might not even stay optimal because blizzard has and will need of too many people use one because it’s OP
If your tank spec depends on borrowed power to no-sale a hit from a boss, couldn’t you just pick a different tank spec that can actually tank using their class abilities with shorter CDs and no DPS interruptions?
They’re not going to design bosses that require a specific covenant to be tanked.