Feels like PvP this xpac would be so much better if they were to eliminate all borrowed power elements (covenants & legendaries) and simply bring back PvP gear set bonuses. This would make classes a lot easier to balance in PvP and would keep a lot of players in the PvP scene engaged. I’m sure most of the broken aspects of the game in PvP are a result of borrowed power as well.
Also revert glad to percentage based instead of 2400. I think this indirectly hurts participation aside from the horrendous gearing system we currently have. Tbh, I’d rather have them make covenants and leggos obsolete in PvP before looking at the gearing system only because of how much distress most players have experienced simply due to overtuned abnormalities that shouldn’t exist in the game.
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So would my gear set give me abomb limb
Borrowed power weird term for me because any other mmo would be new expac comes out oh cool I get a new talent row I pick abomb limb and the conduits are just passives I’d get while lvling but blizzard makes a fancy system so you don’t keep all these little % increases thru to the next expac.
Just fancy talent row
So ideally my expectation for a new xpac would be like more unique abilities in spellbook per class, new talent row, and possibly new PvP gear set bonuses.
Abomb limb imo is pretty toxic to deal with anyways. Would prefer something milder but more skill inducing. I’d want to see something like double grip for DK as a set bonus for example. I understand Blizz trying to go all out with unconventional systems, but its just a lot more healthier for the game if they go with the traditional expansion elements (as stated above) and wouldn’t have to deal with an incredibly bloated system that requires tons of frequent balancing hotfixes - which is pretty unreasonable to ask for considering how poor communication has been between the dev team & players since BFA.
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I think eliminating covenants and legendaries would water down the game a lot. Covenants and legendaries bring a certain amount of complexity to the game that I think would be incredibly missed if removed and not replaced in some form.
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i’m just trying to ask how getting a new talent row is different from picking my new talent ro i mean covenant
if there was no borrowed power warriors would just be like hmm do i want banner or spear this match (which is how it should’ve been) it’s no different than just giving you the abilities and then taking them away next expansion
set bonuses on gear are cool but aren’t those just conduits?
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I can get over covenant things as being the “expansion feature” even if I don’t necessarily like the abilities in PvP.
I want the legendaries disabled though like they were in Legion.
I think it would suck to not have legendaries at the least in pvp.
I propose pvp specific leggos. All pve borrowed power doesn’t work inside pvp. Each spec gets one leggo memory obtained by buying it off the honor vendor.
You could add conduits to it too if you’d like but I could imagine balancing becomes more difficult the more variables are involved.
Maybe just do this for the ranked play. Random pvp could still have everything active.
okay but u understand how we would just get the new ability as a new max lvl talent / new spellbook ability right
From the way I see it, a new talent row would be providing options that are helpful in conjunction with the class toolkit whereas a covenant is basically providing the player with a more extraneous ability that makes the game more complicated from a design PoV as well as making the PvP environment more inclusive to sub standardized gameplay - which ultimately warrants frequent changes as a byproduct of this philosophy if they’re not tuned properly right from the start.
I have nothing against the borrowed power implemented in the game right now. My only complaint is that they are too dominant due to lack of appropriate tuning and this causes a huge hindrance in skill-oriented gameplay which accompanies enjoyable/rewarding playstyles unfortunately.
Sort of. I’d be content if they were to incorporate some of the conduits into their gearing system as set bonuses.
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Covenant abilities are great for the game as each class has some unique choices. Even non bis ones makes it feel like your character is unique. I dunno pvp talents+ covenants feel good, the gear gap and the korthia grind for conduits and gems is just disgusting tho.
Yes and No.
Conduits have to work for all 3 specs while set bonuses can be tailored to one.
Ringing Clarity (Divine Toll Proc) is a perfect example of how conduits are a headache to balance. Well-Honed Instincts is another example, etc…
If the amount of time and developer investment went into making set bonuses for Mythic raiding, Mythic+ and PvP, a lot of this game would have been salvable.
The Covenant spells would have been talent choices.
We would have had class sets and bonuses.
The barrier to entry would have been smaller.
The balance and tuning would have be easier.
Unless you are a warrior, there has been nothing good about these covenants or Shadowlands Systems.
Show me a Ventyr Druid, a Ventyr DK.
Show me a Night Fae Paladin, a Night Fae Monk.
Yeah I agree. They add a bit of flavor to the class identity externally. But there’s no way we can possibly expect to see good balancing for these borrowed power systems in addition to class balances accordingly. Adding internal factors such as soulbinds and conduits within the cov system along with legendaries too is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to creating a reasonably balanced atmosphere where we aren’t conflating PvE and PvP in the game with respect to impartial class portrayal in each sector.
This is under the assumption that most players have fun in a nearly balanced setting without any extreme deviations taking over and causing a skewed platform competitively.
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agree sometimes, but the point is the extra grind the borrowed power system creates which is colossal
we have the biggest pvp gearing grind ever, except for the rank13/14 honor decay days back in vanilla which were dumped due to crazy burnout from players
the entire point of current design is ‘more grind’ which represented a design shift at the exact same time gold was added to the cash shop as a major new revenue source to cover lost subs
if you attend any monetization seminar/classes or writeups, you’ll understand that cash shop sales statistics are #1 correlated to /timeplayed and exclusive content/gearing with a barrier to access/entry that the cash shop can solve
you can easily look back on legion/bfa/slands and see this huge sweeping design change focus in almost every single part of wow
So we can fix this without removing the systems entirely?
And Blizzard is already doing this next patch btw.
I wish we could say your last sentence, “This is under the assumption that most players have fun in a nearly balanced setting without any extreme deviations taking over and causing a skewed platform competitively.”
Many people just care about winning. Regardless of balance or game state if they arent winning they are complaining. Shadowlands is probably some of the most busted stuff I’ve seen since MOP outside of assassination rogue/fire mage BFA. Suprisingly this is the first expansion since Classic that Warrior is the premiere pvp class outside of perhaps Cata/Shadowmourne War.
Well frankly speaking, most people that I know who play the game have quit for the sole reason that there’s a ridiculous amount of imbalance in the game. Gearing is pretty bad too, but class balance is what defines PvP for the most part and has been a huge part of PvP since Wrath.
I’m sure even on the forums many people would agree that an extremely imbalanced PvP setting can cause tons of frustrating and can contribute to the loss of the PvP playerbase.
I’d say this is for the vast majority of the casuals that step into PvP with very limited game knowledge and experience. Majority of the players who have either played for more than 2 expansions exclusively in PvP wouldn’t have a hard time understanding that in a reasonably balanced environment losses can be a result of major misplays/mishaps whether it would be from a team level or individual level.
Well, idk about this, but I can say that I, for one, enjoy the game when everyone else enjoys the game. Sadly, the PvP playerbase has basically dwindled down tremendously to the point where we can’t even take a good sample of players to corroborate your claim. If people truly care about winning, all we would see are a bunch of fotm classes becoming a total menace on ladder and on the AWC. I think its fair to say that people care more about enjoying the game rather than winning tbh, unless you’re an avid tournament participant ofc.