Not only that, but she was retconned to always wanting war eternal with the Alliance. In her conversation with Nathanos both of them are drooling over their long-term dream of eating Stormwind.06/21/2018 03:31 PMPosted by ReallyhappyMy biggest issue is that in her ressurection, she didnt want war with the alliance, but now she does.
06/21/2018 03:24 PMPosted by PellexThe betrayals are documented. I'm looking for documentation of Sylvanas's reaction. What has been said about how she felt/what she did in response to these betrayals? Where and when was it said?
Did you not do Shadowfang Keep? Did you not do Western Plaguelands on a horde character? In the Battle for Andorhal, Sylvanas concludes the battle by taking Koltira into the Undercity in chains. It was after she was murdered by Lord Godfrey where she decided to dressup as a Forsaken undead and monitor Koltira. This shows that she doesn't trust her general.
We see that instead of allowing for the detente she decided to bring out her Valkyr. She usurped her commander's rights and claimed he betrayed her. That's proof that Sylvanas was unhinged. She tortured the Blood Elf for several years!
The Knights of the Ebon Blade even sent representatives to have him released. She refused each request. Why is this ignored? Sylvanas second turning point in paranoia was in War crimes when her sister Vareessa Windrunner came to her. For a brief moment Sylvanas felt for her sister and had that torn away. She rampaged through the forest and murdered anything that found the misfortune of being in eyesight of her. This shows not only rage, but a need to control. She even wanted to kill her sister and raise her in undeath. In the newest short story she thought to herself about all will serve her. What kind of a mindset leads to such a thought? Well the ones I listed earlier and obviously the most recent betrayals which led her to full paranoia in BTS.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Koltira_Deathweaver
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:A_Personal_Request
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Champion:_Koltira_Deathweaver
At the last moment, Vereesa relented and informed Anduin Wrynn of the poison in Hellscream's food. Despite Hellscream's hateful words and remorseless attitude, the prince saved the imprisoned orc's life, foiling the Banshee Queen's plan. After learning of the plan's failure, the Banshee Queen rampaged through the wilderness, angrily killing any wildlife unfortunate enough to get in her way and proclaiming that she would never attempt to love again.[46]
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sylvanas_Windrunner
https://wow.gamepedia.com/War_Crimes
06/21/2018 03:31 PMPosted by ReallyhappyMy biggest issue is that in her ressurection, she didnt want war with the alliance, but now she does.
It was kinda skipped over, but her views are pretty much the mirror of Genn's, there can be no peace with the other side, only victory.
For purposes of documentation, I also want to note here that "I must kill all hope" only became a major part of Sylvanas's characterization starting with Before the Storm. (Unless someone can point me to an earlier instance of her saying something like this, but I can't remember one.)
07/31/2018 11:02 AMPosted by PellexFor purposes of documentation, I also want to note here that "I must kill all hope" only became a major part of Sylvanas's characterization starting with Before the Storm. (Unless someone can point me to an earlier instance of her saying something like this, but I can't remember one.)
Sylvanas wants to kill all hope of resistance to break our spirits as the Alliance. Join us brother! Let Quel'thelas stand with the Alliance once more! Why stain your hands with the blood of the innocent? As an elven survivor of the genocide committed by Arthas upon Silvermoon. Can you not see the evil before you? Join the Alliance and let's dismantle the Horde for once and for all.
Recent discussions have had me thinking about another point for this thread, so I'm bumping it.
When did Sylvanas start saying "All will serve me"? What's the earliest known instance of her saying that particular line?
When did Sylvanas start saying "All will serve me"? What's the earliest known instance of her saying that particular line?
10/29/2018 01:03 PMPosted by PellexRecent discussions have had me thinking about another point for this thread, so I'm bumping it.
When did Sylvanas start saying "All will serve me"? What's the earliest known instance of her saying that particular line?
The three sisters Windrunner comic as she explains why she called off her dark Rangers from ganking her sisters.
The exact quote is “In the end, they will serve death. They will serve me.”
06/13/2018 07:14 AMPosted by Pellex1. When did she become prone to fits of violent rage? What examples have we seen from her before now?
2. When did she start acting paranoid? What were her paranoid actions?
3. When did she start believing undeath was better than life? What did she say about it? (EDIT: Bolded because a lot of people are answering the question "When did she start believing undeath was better than death?"--and that one is pretty clear. Also, I want to know what evidence we have of her changing opinions, not just a guess at how her mind was working at certain times.)
4. This is a tricky one, I know, but let's try it: when did her goal become killing all humans and raising them as undead?
5. Another tricky one, but again, let's try: when did she start demanding blind obedience? Given that the Forsaken starting zone explicitly shows the newly raised having a choice as to whether to join the Forsaken or not, it clearly wasn't in the game from day one, so it must have started somewhere. Has she punished anyone for disagreeing with her before?
- 1) Uhh ... WC3? She's always been prone to allowing her emotions to get the better of her and it screwing over her "pragmatic" plans. While not "anger" she did allow Arthas to escape due to wanting to torture him in WC3. Her killing of Garithos may have been justified, but it was certainly not the pragmatic choice. There was her alliance with Verimathras that backfired hard. Her throwing herself off of ICC ... for spectacular results. And of course we cant forget her little temper tantrum in the woods in War Crimes.
- 2) She's been paranoid for a long time, though its particularly gotten worse since she was betrayed by Verimathras, Godfrey, and Grand Apothecary Puttress.
- 3) Easy one ... when she got sent to hell in "Edge of Night". She killed herself (not giving a !@#$ about the Forsaken without her) and then found herself in a pretty aweful place ... before she was given a deal that would free her. A primary motivation since then has been to NEVER return; changing her "Arrows in her Quiver" into a "Bulwark against the Infinite". Life would presumably also eventually lead to such an afterlife, but perpetual undeath will not.
- 4) Again, easy one ... dealing with her fear of hell in "Edge of Night". Regardless of whether she cares about the Forsaken or not (or in what way), it is still true that she does use them as tools as well. When she sought vengeance against Arthas, they were her valuable "Arrows in her Quiver"; when she returned from "hell", they became her "Bulwark against the infinite". An indispensable shield between her and her eternal afterlife; one thats not to be squandered ... and one that is stronger if it grows.
- 5) Sylvie has always sort of expected blind obedience, just not in a literal sense. Her Cult of Personality within the Forsaken really is reflective of a general, "My Way or the Highway" mentality. Free-will is important, as long as its convenient for the whole. Since Sylvie also has increasing difficulties with trust, this need for control over the Forsaken has only increased with it. Like when she planned to kill Vareesa and raise her into undeath in "War Crimes". She loves her sister, but she can only really "trust her" if she knows she can control her too (no risk of betrayal).
10/29/2018 01:07 PMPosted by SaiphasThe three sisters Windrunner comic as she explains why she called off her dark Rangers from ganking her sisters.
The exact quote is “In the end, they will serve death. They will serve me.”
She never said it before that? I could swear I'd seen it earlier. Maybe I'm thinking of the PTR version of the Brennadamn orders, but even then, it seemed like something she'd said before.