Mut?
Never heard of that
You mean Mutilate?
What? Sub doesnât have good aoe at all.
Sub is a single target
Spec 100%. The only decent aoe it has requires MMA legendary and thatâs a small burst aoe coming out of stealth.
Sin will have good aoe the longer the adds last.
Itâll be interesting to see how the buff actually plays out. Aura buffs donât seem as impactful on melee classes since a significant portion of our damage doesnât come from our âabilities.â But itâll be interesting to see where assassination goes at higher gear levels.
Back before the pruning sin was called
Mut.
Mut is already going to take subs single target spot due to ease of play and dot effects being better for progression.
It is decent actually, due to Finality (which every Sub has) that increases the dmg of Black Powder.
And its dmg is also increased by Shadow Dance and Mark of the Death that makes Shuriken storm apply Reveal Weakness to everything it hits, and if you remember BP does more dmg to targets with RW
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Not every rogue runs finality.
If Iâm doing content with aoe Iâm running outlaw.
I currently have 4 leggos.
Akaari
Celerity
Zoldyk
Mma
I mean lets be honest most do due to it being more versatile than the other one which is mostly only good in ST.
And even then, Sub does decent AOE due to the other stuff.
Considering sub is a single target spec why would you want a sub par leggo?
Itâs probably 50/50. Iâm never going to play sub for itâs aoe. I would play sub for itâs strong ST damage on a single target raid right.
If I need to worry about multiple
Targets Iâm going to play outlaw because it has much better aoe and itâs aoe isnât reliant on rng to proc FW.
Doensât have to be great, but wouldnât good be fine too? It seemed to be much better in M+ for BFA.
Its main strength is ST yes, but its not lacking in AOE.
And even then AOE dmg is needed sometimes on raids, like with Sun King boss
Thats why most prefer Finality due to it being good for both ST and AOE
And you said it yourself, without Akkari the dmg doesnt even change drastically if your run Finality instead, the difference in ST isnt that big, its actually really small.
Finality is second best for ST, but the difference from Akkari is really small.
In fact Finality is the best legendary for Sub overall, Akkari is only the best when doing exclusively ST dmg, and like i already said, not by that much.
And if you really want you can make both and change them depending on the situation.
Ok again itâs personal preference. However if Iâm doing a fight like sunking Iâm not going to play sub anyways.
Iâm going to play outlaw because of how priority those adds are which makes outlaw the better choice for that fight.
Iâm only going to play sub on a fight thatâs pure single target due to the fact that itâs strength is in single target period. So crafting finality is a waste and was only done by people who are only going to play sub.
I donât limit myself to one spec so akaari >finality.
Raided as sin last night and it felt pretty good. Feel free to scope my logs if interested and want to provide any helpful feedback.
You can really feel that Zoldyck legendary on fights like altimor and stone legion - even sludgefist and other fights when that vendetta lines up when heâs sub 30%. I bet Sire with its long execute phase will be good too, we just didnât have time to get to him last night. Did my first M+ with it as well - a 14 TP - and not gonna lie that felt real bad, but tbh thatâs just prolly on me.
As someone who played sin pretty much all of legion and bfa, with the exception of a few tiers, I think one possible way to improve sin is to bring back some of the old azerite powers. Namely, shrouded suffocation and echoing blades. The initial opener feels really slow on a 2+ target cleave fight when you only get 3 cp from 3 separate garrotes - on top of having to get snd rolling and rupture before you can feel good about popping a vendetta . The lack of energy without snd is very noticeable, so I think itâs really important to min/max those pandemic windows, but admittedly I have been playing sub all expac and my haste was only like 16% after switching some things around. ST as sin feels good though, first time really every playing with blindside and that was pretty neat. For M+ or a fight like Sunking, I think sin could really use the extra crit/cp generation from fan of knives that echoing blades in bfa provided.
Just my two cents from first night as sin, not a theory crafter by any stretch of the imagination. Glad to have sin be viable at least, and once I get the soul ash to craft Celerity - itâll be pretty awesome to be able to play all 3 specs and switch it up based on the content.
Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
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Thatâs where Iâm at too. I tried sin for heroic shriek/sludge/sgl/sire.
The execute phase is really nice especially on stone legion. I canât wait till I get to do huntsman again.
If I could just get a 220 dagger 
. I havenât tried it in any keys yet though.
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Yeah I probably couldâve switched some things around in the M+. I think it could actually get a lot better once Koralyn is fully unlocked. Zoldyck + Wild Hunt Tactics + First Strike with either a poisoned katar or lethal poison conduit. Basically big damage and crit above 75% health and even bigger damage sub 30%. That being said, all specs will get a lot better with Koralyn fully unlocked lol.
Where did you guys find the news on another 5% buff for Mut? I have looked everywhere and canât find confirmation. Loves my Mut and wants to make things bleed again.
It went live on Tuesday.
It was posted on wowhead and the warcraft patch notes.
Ahhh ok. I thought another one was coming. TY
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Looking over the logs- a few questions for you & the other fellas.
Is it normal for the damage of Poison Bomb to be that low? Seemed like it was only contributing 2-3% of your overall damage on any given boss fight? Seems feelsbad if the meta Level 50 talent choice is only adding about as much damage as the Hateful Chain procs (~2-3% overall)
Looking at the Sludgefist fight- Sin looks like it has about equivilant burst to sub, but looks like it has way better sustain dps that Sub- did you notice that dps sustain was better in between the pillar burst windows?
Looks like you absolutely blasted huntsman! Nice to see the Sin multi target dps is back on the menu a little (not a question, just exciting to see)
Also (off topic) looks like Niya Burrs are good value? Better overall damage than Hateful Rage, Poison Bomb, Sepsis and sometimes even Mut. Is that right? That seems huge.
Cheers for trailing Sin and posting logs btw 
I would love to see another 5-8% buff for Mut. I feel like it would be a good place, at least damage wise, with that. Utility wise, thatâs another story.