Silence from Blizzard on Warlocks

oh boy, well I was hoping this wouldn’t have to be my soapbox, but I guess I might as well explain how warcraftlogs (and to a more relevant example, where blizzard tuning) arrives at its metrics. Before I start, I will say that I’m in no way saying that we’re fine, in fact warlock is underperforming in almost every metric (dps, survivability, pvp, hps) and should be tuned higher, but in no way is 40% ever realistic.

I am using mythic data because it is more representative of people that are able to play their class effectively and at a high-level. Unsurprisingly, heroic data is actually much, much closer on average level than mythic data (see here (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#aggregate=amount&difficulty=4).

Wall of text inc.


First off lets get the story straight, usually for tuning at the upper-end limits, blizz wants to increase the floor of the average percentile of throughput in relation to all relative classes; This is accomplished a couple different ways:

  1. You can take the overall metric of dps ON AVERAGE over the span of all raid encounters and make a judgement as to the overall aura damage that must be increased to bring averages closer together. For example, if you look at this chart, upper end thresholds are not taken into consideration as averages are more easily attainable targets, and talent tuning is left to major patch content (anything that is a .5, .7 etc.): (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#)
  2. Internal metrics on dps are slightly different based on context and factors that designers consider when creating talents and elaborating on the niche for each spec. There are ways they accomplish tuning by reducing major key talents that are outperforming their desired throughput based on fights or overall (see recent lightning rod nerf, which was targeted, but in no way is the complete tuning for elemental). I would not be surprised if affliction got specific context tuning for single target WITH aura buffs to incentivize people to play it higher-end mythic encounters this coming reset, or whenever they make tuning adjustments.

ANALYSIS
Typically, warcraftlogs aggregates its data based on a couple different factors:

  1. Normalized scores (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#)
  2. Overall aggregated data that shows dps metrics on an average level (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#aggregate=amount)
    Both of these examples are using normalized (as in averaged out based on all percentile ranges) of the expected dps outcome of classes. In no circumstance is tuning EVER related to upper thresholds as these are extreme outliers. This is also the case for anyone that uses a simulation software that aggregates the thousands of simulations to create a median dps throughput that it spits out at you.
  3. Per boss metrics are usually the best case scenario in which your classes niche can be harnessed and put into context. Usually any class or spec that is best on every fight is severely overtuned, there is no class that fits this at all at the moment, not even elemental which has extreme funnel damage, which is in itself niche (although more relevant this tier).

FURTHERMORE there are a couple contextual variables to consider in these issues:

  1. Class representation for pure dps classes is always skewed to whichever spec is performing higher in any given circumstance. For warlock this is denoted by destruction being the better spec for progression, and demonology surpassing the other specs in single target fights. This means that stronger players are inherently increasing the normalized data for both these specs higher than affliction to some degree.
  2. Simulation data is placing our specs in relatively close proximity to one another, aside from demonology which is over 5% ahead in raw throughput if you can match the expected dps output from the sim.

What does this mean
Taking a look at the spell data from the sims, as well as the context within the raid, warcraftlogs has a decent representation of where we are at an “all bosses context”. You take the average aggregated data from the best non-exploit spec (elemental) and then divide it by the aggregated data of affliction. To most nuanced TC people, obviously this way of looking at buffs/nerfs is rudementary and misses context, but unfortunately this is how blizzard has historically incentivized participation rates in classes and specs.

This nets out to 1,345,983/1,121,749=1.20…

In a nutshell, ele is technically outperforming aff by roughly 20% (IN AN AVERAGE CONTEXT) in raid.

HOWEVER

Given the context above, I’m pretty confident in saying that affliction is actually underperforming the metrics that are given on an overall basis and that the threshold would be lower by X%. In my mind, I’m pretty confident in saying a +/- of 5% after doing all the fights on mythic, and focusing on the niche that affliction has (which is single target funnel, albeit more variable than other ranged).


TLDR:
No, our spec does not need anywhere close to a 40% increase to “beat other specs” even if you were take raw throughput data on average. We would be over 20% stronger than the highest spec if you took into account no context and used aggregated data at this current moment.

If anybody wants to chime in or back up their end with some data, I’m all ears.

2 Likes

As for this portion of your assessment, it has no basis in reality. As somebody that has pushed m+ title on multiple characters, the narrative of “our casts our long, we need haste to dps” is ludicrous to the extent of overall average metrics. The issue this season is where I’ve explained elsewhere: short cds are significantly overtuned compared to longer cds this season, this has more far ranging implications than simply the fact that “we can’t take advantage of a buff”. Typically, any caster that has cdr on their main cd, or has incredibly consistent or over the top burst (think of fire mage in the past, or destro lock in shadowlands) ends up being meta. The meta this season is relatively newish to the extent of shorter cds being insanely powerful (hence frost never being meta in m+ ever before this tier). Even fire mage sucks in m+ because combust sucks. This isn’t taking into account raid buffs and outside utility (which we also lack).

EDIT: Affliction is high on these metrics, because our aoe throughput at the high end on m+ is actually higher than the vast majority of dps specs (as shocking as that sounds). This is also backed up by real-world data as well as simulation work by the warlock TC’s.

Our problem is that our utility blows, and that there are other specs that have better, ON AVERAGE, cd cadence’s that allow for easier pug dps throughput and cd alignment (think ret, enh, ele, dk). Sleeper picks for MDI type scenarios atm are unholy dk which is tuned absurdly high in mass aoe scenarios.

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Is this for sanlayn or riders?

From what I’ve heard and seen, it’s riders.

A few people I know are using it in the mdi time trial for necrotic wake in particular.

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Silence from Blizzard you know why we got to wait for a damn video come out to get fix come on youtubers get off you’re b*** make one

They have until Oct 29th. They said that’s when they would be getting to the classes they ignored in 11.05, otherwise I’m giving up.

This class just feels so bad at this point.

4 Likes

If you look back to my post I said “all specs” meaning that some warlock specs are indeed doing 40% less dps than the highest damage dealers are right now. Go do a diabolist destro sim and get back to me with that wall of text. And we just got our AoE nerfed by 10%.
What a joke.

guess you didn’t read my post. I also help with the sim profile.

Ty for the info

EDIT: It’s also ironic you would pick our 2nd highest simming profile and not say hellcaller aff in single target.

Gj

Because you’re looking at the wrong thing.
You’re looking at average ilvl
At max ilvl we fall off completely

First off, nobody is max ilevel.

Second off, blizzard will never tune for max ilevel, I’m not even max ilevel even though people in my guild are almost 637.

I can promise you as somebody that is literally playing, and atm currently fighting queen mythic that we are not 40% behind at all. The metrics from my post also completely validate this through aggregated data.

I’ll expand further when I’m not raiding

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“First off, nobody is max ilvl” is such a backwards way of looking at this
I’ll put it a different way. I play dev evoker and destro warlock
Right now on my 620ilvl dev evoker alt, my ST is doing more damage than my destro lock would be doing at max ilvl
Where is the incentive to ever get more gear if I’m still going to be hundreds of thousands (about 33% in reality) worse than the alternative options?
Saying they’re not going to balance this is the same as saying “don’t play warlock in mythic raid”

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Dev evoker sim is not 33% ahead of the destro sim. In what world do you live in lmao

EDIT: (https://simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW1_Raid.html)

its been 20 years bro

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Hellcaller isn’t but diabolist is

Look at that link, then do the math

I can’t post links but just go check 99th percentile heroic single target bosses
It couldn’t be easier to see what I’m talking about
All of our specs are bottom 8 and doing around 1.3m dps while top dps is doing over 2.1m

nobody cares about 99th percentile parses when people play to parse grief. I literally carry buyers that give us gold us to make them parse high. You look at averages.

not responding after this. you clearly have no clue what this conversation is about and just want to butt into it and talk about something nobody cares about.

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I know exactly what you’re trying to argue. You’re arguing that max ilevel 99 percentile parses are in somehow in any way relevant to any tuning discussion when both extremes are eliminated in when you take parses from an average pov.

You’re looking at this chart (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#bracket=15&dataset=99)

Which completely skews the data with a tiny sample size, and irrelevant data that is mired with people that play to parse on extreme outlier classes.

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i was doing great damage in M+ and raids before. now i just suck and validating why i dont get invited to any keys that im qualified for