Should just revert all the changes to AV

[Ox-heartseeker]

A “super-secret fix” just doesn’t line up with what they have done before or since then.

And yet it has been observed by the entire AV premade community.

The map advantages are very much debatable.

They aren’t. Blizzard changed the map in later phases of the game.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

They aren’t. Blizzard changed the map in later phases of the game.

They changed the map AFTER they changed the rules of the map. The Horde cave was only moved south after they put AV onto the respawn-ticket system…and killing Galv/Balinda removed 100 respawn tickets.

And yet it has been observed by the entire AV premade community.

I am not saying it didn’t happen. Just that it is very much unlike Blizzard to make a change like that and not document it. And just saying it happened, but its a secret isn’t very convincing to me.

[Ox-heartseeker]

And just saying it happened, but its a secret isn’t very convincing to me.

There are observable differences in the queuing mechanism. What used to happen was this:

1. Players queued for a game number that was >5 minutes from ending
2. When the game would end, all players queued for that game would immediately pop into a new game

Now what happens is this:

1. Players queued for a game number that was >5 minutes from ending
2. When that game ends, all players are dropped from the game number queue and put back into the general First Available queue and must wait as if they just queued.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Its possible they changed it. For the sake of argument lets just say they did. I would argue that the rate that premades abused the Right-Click Report system against pugs would have been enough reason alone to break them.

That level off raw griefing ruined it.

[Ox-heartseeker]

I wish I could right-click report but my damn addons mess it all up. Why do we play this game again? lol

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Games are supposed to be fun to play /shrug. I am having fun. Even when fighting the 7min premade losses I made my own fun.

If you’re not having fun in a game, then perhaps its time to do something you do have fun with.

[Ox-heartseeker]

It was a joke. I think we’re similar in that way. My guild things I’m crazy for running this many AVs… maybe I am

[Kräckr-draka]

every1 knew rank 14 was a grind, nothing more. premades should remain banned indefinitely.

but i do want a fair 50-50 fight none the less. WHICH IS NOT FROM PREMADE VS PREMADE.

[Rorlt-benediction]

The biggest reason to revert AV changes is to fix WSG premade cancer meta. Send them all back to PVE hell plz.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

The ratios were even because Alliance were allowed literally cheat. No.

If you can’t win in a fair fight then you don’t get to win. Grow up.

[Celldweller-heartseeker]

I see you typing, but I’m not sure we’re going to agree on this one Pollz. You’re forming your opinion from a position of advantage, and you have a misguided perception that Horde players are somehow better than Alliance players which is just not the case.

It absolutely without a doubt is the case. Not saying this trying to be superior or whatever, it simply is reality. And it’s unfortunate.

Vanilla alliance win rate 50%. Classic alliance (on NA only) win rate 5%.

That is a player problem. You can’t debate it.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

you have a misguided perception that Horde players are somehow better than Alliance players which is just not the case.

Doesn’t really matter who is the “better” player, if only one of them is actually putting effort in and the other is afking.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Your premades were CAUSING those one sided games.

This would have made it even worse. The premades would have continued opening up and abandoning games. Games that are stuck waiting to be filled even longer.

He’s exactly right. You want to leave the source of the problem and instead make Alliance pugs and Horde wait longer for games so Alliance can cheat? Again, NO.

Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. They stealth patched the ability to queue an in progress game by reshuffling everyone queued for a specific game into the general pool of players. There absolutely was a change without a patch note.

Good for them. I don’t care how bad your games are because half your team doesn’t even try, that doesn’t give you the right to cheat. Honestly Blizzard should have banned entire premades from Alliance side too. Cheating is never ok no matter how you try to justify it.

Of course its debatable. Other regions are not losing nearly as much as the US realms are. And the Alliance in Vanilla were winning the majority of this version of AV. Just saying “Nuh uh, its obvious!” isn’t super convincing to me.

Alliance love to overlook those facts. Vanilla Alliance with these exact racials on these exact maps won the majority of games. At the same time some Alliance try to blame the map or WOTF, another thread pops up about 15 people afking hiding behind hills to farm HKS without effort. THAT is the real problem but there isn’t an easy fix to that like “let me cheat,” so they try to brush it aside.

They changed the map AFTER they changed the rules of the map. The Horde cave was only moved south after they put AV onto the respawn-ticket system…and killing Galv/Balinda removed 100 respawn tickets.

Yeap, and until then it was considered fine for YEARS. It only changed once easily killing Balinda gave a 100 respawn advantage. At THAT point having defensive chokes in different stages, “mid versus end,” made a significant difference.

hen me and you must have been on completely different forums

These forums are a tiny fraction of the playerbase and only a tiny fraction of the forums were posting for no changes.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

They aren’t. Blizzard changed the map in later phases of the game.

For the thousandth time: the horde cave was moved when captains began to give reinforcement points.

[Consensus-hyjal]

Of course its debatable. Other regions are not losing nearly as much as the US realms are. And the Alliance in Vanilla were winning the majority of this version of AV. Just saying “Nuh uh, its obvious!” isn’t super convincing to me.

Give some data to support this or stop parroting it. People keep saying this with no supporting evidence except “I read it on the forum”.

Its not debatable. This map is horde favored and it’s more than the cave location. The cave is just the obvious and hardest to overcome. Move that and see how pro these horde players are in AV without their handicap.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

We actually played in Vanilla and saw those games. How about you prove every Alliance in the world is losing horribly. Oh wait you can’t. You just spout nonsense about 99.9% loss rates then expect us to prove otherwise.

[Consensus-hyjal]

By all means quote me saying that.

Nobody has provided any evidence that alliance won more in vanilla or that in other regions alliance win more, but they parrot it like it’s fact.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

That’s because we played then and we know it was fact. Just because no one thought to keep records doesn’t mean it’s not true. If it helps, Blizzard, “specifically Ion,” has stated it himself as well.

It’s not like we can dig up the fossils of old Horde losses and put them in a museum somewhere.

[Consensus-hyjal]

Anecdotal evidence isn’t proof. I played vanilla as well and as horde and I recall a mostly even win rate but I am not going to claim that was the vanilla experience everyone else had.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

You prove that all Alliance are losing, then i’ll prove they aren’t.

I played vanilla as well and as horde and I recall a mostly even win rate but I am not going to claim that was the vanilla experience everyone else had.

You do realize that 60-40, “the 60% win ratio most people are saying,” is a “mostly even” win rate. Despite Alliance that insist a 60-40 pop means they’re “hopelessly outnumbered.” By the way, i’m posting on a toon that played in Vanilla, where is yours?