Atleast the Forsaken are getting Calia. She seems like a good stand in for their old queen. I’ve seen lots of undead players clamor for her to go ahead, and take the throne.
You … didn’t read Edge of Night did you? I get a lot of Sylvanas fans REALLY like to sweep that story under the rug (or give her massive benefits of the doubt) … but that little short story single-handedly recontextualized her entire relationship with her Forsaken through the fall of Arthas. Rendering her “mongrel race of rotten corpses” little more than valuable tools that were always at risk of being discarded the moment they ceased to be of sufficient use for her and her objectives.
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Really? I’ve seen the exact opposite of this, and quite frankly I’m inclined to agree with the sentiment.
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Not me. I soak in lots of opinions, I know one of the new players I’m helping out was pretty glad she was introduced.
Calia is NOT what the Forsaken want. The Forsaken want Sylvanas back.
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If they can make Calia adapt to the Forsaken, then she stands a chance of being well-received, but even then it’s a longshot. As of now, the major fear Forsaken players hold that I’ve noticed is that Calia runs the risk of coming in to “fix” the Forsaken - and by fix, I more or less mean undo all of the themes they’ve held since the game’s inception and supplement them with her own perception of what her people should be.
Calia’s a problematic fix because she’s spent the majority of her time separated from her people’s struggles, and has been undead for less time than your average cockroach vendor. She doesn’t mesh with the Forsaken in her current state for a number of reasons.
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No … I’ve done exactly what I should have with Sylvanas. I took everything she said in public with a grain of salt, and everything she said internally at face value. What I didn’t do after EoN was the reverse, where her grand speeches were evidence of her true character … while reading novellas in between the lines of her own horrific internal thoughts. To give her the massive benefit of the doubt.
And I’m not going to sit here and state that she didn’t have other facets that could have taken her character elsewhere (of course there was) … I just refused to ignore the major parts of her characterization that could lead her on the type of path she went on. Because it protected some concept of her that many of her fans seemed to like far more than the actual character being written.
EDIT: I’ve long since seen Sylvanas as just another Gallywix when it comes to her relation to her people. They were tools for their leaders personal use, and while useful … also expendable. The only difference is that Wix didn’t care enough to keep up appearances … Sylvanas always wore a mask.
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Wrong, the narrative I’m pretty sure has them wanting someone else, atleast a portion.
Unless you mean the playerbase, in which case it’s similar. Not all of them want her back.
She doesn’t mesh with the Forsaken in her current state for a number of reasons.
If I can reasonably be shown that she isn’t meshing with the Forsaken in the game I would be more inclined to believe this, but I’m pretty sure the Forsaken are receptive to her, and as far as I know the only person who doesn’t like her is Sylvanas.
You got me cornered there. You’re right, I would be content if justice isn’t met and the Sylvanus gets away scott free, but I am reasonable to realize that this wouldn’t be fair.
The question then, is there a way for us to keep Sylvanus as a member of the Forsaken while delivering a punishment worthy of the atrocities she has committed? This is a ridiculous prospect and perhaps the two ideas contradict one another. I’ll keep thinking because that’s all I can do until more answers come out.
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To be fair, I haven’t seen many people claim that.
It’s more like the story itself heavily hints into that direction through NPC dialogue.
Anduin before SoO 2: “Tyrande hasn’t answered my missives. I fear she’s consumed by vengeance.”
Shandris after the peace treaty talks: " I beg you, let go of the Black Moon’s rage and embrace the Mother’s light once again."
Jaina in the Maw intro, upon learning that Tyrande went after Sylvanas: “That is troubling. An ancient ritual infused her with incredible power. I fear it may be growing beyond her ability to contain it.”
The message is clear, vengeance= bad, Tyrande has to be saved from herself.
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Really? Because most forsaken characters actually want the opposite
The Forsaken in-game aren’t the only factor here. Narratively, the Forsaken who were receptive to her have been a small handful at the Gathering, and people who’ve been undead for a shorter span of time than her (like Derek or the Kaldorei Dark Rangers). That’s not particularly indicative of Forsaken opinion as a whole, especially after the terse history they had with the last Menethil they ran into.
But you also have to consider the playerbase here. Calia is entirely an antithesis to the gritty themes that have defined the Forsaken for years, and comes off far more as a savior trope for something that, by Forsaken standards, doesn’t really need saving. If Calia was crowned in her current state, she’d be an erasure. Not a fix.
Nope. At this point, we have a character who’s abandoned both her people and all of the virtues she built them on, all in the name of what SHE perceives to be what’s best (which ultimately is just nihilistic eradication in the same vein as what Sargeras attempted).
Sylvanas in her current state is akin to an abusive ex, who played on the traumas of someone to get them to do what she needs done - the Forsaken were “arrows in her quiver” who (as she put it) “stubbornly clung to hope,” and when she saw them being hopeful in anything besides her (like those at the Gathering), she had them offed. She doesn’t deserve the Forsaken anymore.
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Are you going to hang out by her grave with WM on? Just wondering.
Its called “Gentrification”. Which is why “Getting to Know her People” has resulted in nothing but her interacting with a plethora of brand-new recently Alliance Undead. Not one of which was Forsaken in any way. Ironic that Voss, who embodies Forsaken Free Will and the Forsaken Experience so well is the one not getting that TLC … and instead is being made the “steward of Gondor”.
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Yeah, I’m considering their playerbase as a whole. My main issue with her being rejected is literally that she appears to be being accepted in the game so far. If she isn’t I’m not seeing it from anyone past Sylvanas.
The thing about the last Menethil they ran into for me is, why are they going to condemn Calia for the mistakes of her brother? Because, a major theme of the Forsaken in my perspective was not allowing Arthas to condemn them to be undead monsters… of course they continued to act like complete monsters in my opinion, but their rational of being defiant against Arthas means to me they would be receptive of the woman who is literally deemed a monster by her brother, just as they once were, and have no reason to reject her due to her bloodied name. Unless they’re just the ultimate hipocrites, and that’s starting to actually stretch what I could find myself even caring what happens to them period.
I remember there was a line in Shadows Rising that read something like Voss was carrying herself as if Calia were taking note of her every action, and it just felt… very tone deaf. Calia should be proving herself to Voss, not the other way around.
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Personally I just don’t like her because of her last name of Menethil. I liked the idea of the people of Lordaeron leaving the Menethil line behind as a sort of metaphor for moving on from a monarchy, I guess. Even if she’s not -technically- a queen, I just plain dislike the concept of her becoming a prominent character for them again. Her being lightforged was an additional dislike.
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I don’t think they’re holding her accountable for the crimes of her brother, but she certainly made no effort to stick around to help mend what he did to her people. If Calia was as beloved and looked up to as the small handful of Forsaken that have interacted with her imply, she should have repaid that with something other than disappearing on them. She doesn’t get the plight of Lordaeron, cause she ditched the people who went through it.
This too. I’ve heard a lot of people argue that Calia has a right to the throne of Lordaeron, but like… the Menethil monarchy’s more or less dead. Lordaeron as a kingdom arguably as well. The Forsaken are the power now, and they have no real reason to adhere to a right of succession that no longer exists.
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While I am less “doomsayer” when it comes to Calia, I think the best, and most tone-deaf, moment that totally invalidated Calia as a solo Forsaken lead for me is when the first words out of her mouth to Lil were Calia reminiscing about her dad. How she remembered his sermons. Like, holy crap woman! Do you not understand what Benedictus was to not only Lil (especially Lil), but what he represents to the Forsaken?! That wasn’t just foot in mouth bad, that was naive of the Forsaken’s situation to dangerous degrees!
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I will give Calia the benefit of the doubt there - it’s possible Calia didn’t know what Benedictus became, or what he did to Lilian. But… yeah, largely that felt like entirely the wrong way to me. It really perfectly encompasses to me why Calia doesn’t really work as a leader for the Forsaken, she just doesn’t understand the trauma they’ve experienced.
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