Remove duration cap on Adrenaline Rush
The cap ensures that if we get lucky, we don’t get more uptime on refresh, but if we get unlucky, we lose uptime because it will drop off. By removing the cap it will let us flow a refresh with some extra time. This will mostly come down to 10~12 seconds if you’re having a luck streak, though more often 3~5 seconds. This time will reduce the amount of luck you need to keep AR active, and will lower the skill ceiling to a more reasonable point.
TL;DR: lower ceiling in terms of AR uptime as it carries over valuable seconds
Remove UHUH pause on Shadow Dance and Subterfuge
Instead give us AR for the duration of both buffs (6s with current builds). This will stop punishing unlucky streaks and less than perfect gameplay around AR uptime. Stealth should still pause the cooldown, this ensures that vanish mid-combat and stealth between packs can be used to prevent AR drop-off while still getting 6s of AR once you engage.
TL;DR: can now hold your burst for 5~15 seconds without AR dropping off and ruining your pull as you’ll always have it during crackshot
Reset the cooldown on BtE when
Entering Stealth, Subterfuge, and Shadow Dance when Crackshot is picked. This fixes 2 issues:
BtE going on CD because of spell queue and macro delays.
Lots of tracking overhead (usually through weak auras), where you have to constantly evaluate whether or not you can still press BtE before Shadow Dance and Vanish come off CD.
These changes might require some extra looking into energy recovery of Adrenaline rush as it will recover more often when droping off through refreshes. These are not long term fixes because it only fixes stuff related to Crackshot.
The short term fix for me would be to buff the talents not related to the stealth / BTE trash playstyle. So I can play something similiar to WoD / Legion Rogue.
The Rogue tree needs a massive rework, Echoing Reprimand talents need to go, Shadow Dance doesn’t belong anywhere near an outlaw build. Outlaw needs to go more back to its combat roots. I’m all for specs that make you think about your next move, but playing wack-a-mole, while maintaining all your self buffs, watching for procs, and all the CDs just is not fun to me.
Where exactly in outlaws history besides dragonflight has shadowdance been a part of its playstyle, when was ambush spammed more than sinister strike. I’m sorry that you seem triggered by my opinion. But you not liking what I said doesn’t change the fact that I do not like playing dragonflights new sublaw build.
This is contradictory, if that’s not fun for you then you’re not all for it.
What if I told you if we pruned RTB, BTE, Pistol Shot, you basically get the old combat rogue. Combat’s design had been the basic skeleton of Outlaw for many years, ever since Legion.
It really is just people rather play the boring builder spender and press KS every 2 min, than learn to press a few extra buttons.
You know you are correct I would rather just play a builder spender, I’ll even take the pistol shot procs I like that mechanic. You can dump SnD, give me roll the bones, have dispatch and BtE be my finishers. Sounds a lot like Legion outlaw, give me even more piratey things like cannonball barrage I’d be happy. I’d be able to play the game and not my weak auras. I’d also be willing to bet the majority of outlaw players would be more than happy with that playstyle as long as it was competitive. There is a reason why Beast Master hunter is so popular. I would have no problem being below a well played sublaw rogue, if I had the option to play the playstyle I pointed out above, the harder the spec the more rewarding it should be, I just want a viable legion style outlaw.
vanish and stealth gameplay has been a staple to outlaws gameplay since its inception in legion arguebly even when combat was a thing. if you didnt use vanish then that was a you issue. that doesnt mean that stealth mechanics was never a thing for outlaw
This scenario is not relevant to current content: I noticed during TW weeks that a combination of Vision of Perfection and some talents/azerite traits will set me up with Adrenaline Rush lasting for minutes. One time I had a 24 minute long AR. It cleared off as soon as the dungeon ended.
Yes you would vanish once every what, 2 min for 1 ambush. The gameplay didn’t revolve around vanish and shadow dance. Trying to argue that it did, and always has shows a distinct lack of knowledge of the history of the spec. For the most part vanish was a safety net to avoid death during wipes or dropping aggro.
Outlaw has lost all its identity from legion if we are to be honest. At this point Outlaw has stolen Sub’s identity and most people are not afraid to admit this at this point.
If you want to play combat, then go play Feral. Its literally the same thing. You know why Feral is often bad and why combat was removed from the game? Its because combat was crap.
Outlaw is no longer unique or even what it was originally intended to be. Outlaw lost the ranged kidney shot that was reduced by CDR along with CloS when TB was up. No longer an extra ranged finisher like run through. No Cannon Ball Barrage. Everything that made Outlaw unique and different from Combat was stripped away.
Current Outlaw plays like an inferior version of Combat while stealing Sub’s identity.
It is currently in a poor space where it is a hybrid spec between what it used to be and Sub.
They need to make a talent tree option for Outlaw that lets you play like a Combat Rogue.
I totally hate the new FOTM talent build. Nothing about using a pistol feels like a Rogue to me, it’s more like a Hunter, and I hate the friggin Vanish and Shadowastep/Between the Eyes windows to do a decent amount of DPS.
Outlaw just feels awful compared to what it used to be when it was Combat.
Go play classic then. God forbid if we have a spec in the game that still has some form of skill expression. If you want to literally afk SS rupture then just go play that.
Outlaw doesn’t have skill expression when it is heavily relies on addons. Venruki’s video on this topic covers it clearly.
The problem is that Outlaw using Dance windows is not that much of a skill expression compared to say PVE Sub in WoD during dance windows.
Everyone would agree that there was higher level of skill expression with PVE Sub in WoD.
The problem is that currently Outlaw steals Sub’s identity or skill expression using dance windows without bringing anything new to the table that involves skill expression.
This is why Outlaw currently is in the worst spot it has been since introduced in Legion in terms of game play loop, flow and design.
