Short comings of Dragonflight

Community General Discussion
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Dear devs-

You have left your core supporters behind.

I’ve enjoyed progression raiding since MC. That is when my real life has allowed me to play. I like many others have gone to school, built a career, and family. Those are all time consuming things but the game still allowed me to play somewhat competitively. I have raided heroic content and dabbled in mythic progression.

Df was tooted as casual friendly so I came back. The expansion is beautiful but you have made sure changes that have lost me.

Used to be I could raid 2 or 3 nights a week for 4 hrs and call it good. After a much larger initial baseline gear grind raiding became progression focus.

Today I find that I can’t keep up.

A system where a great vault releases over the top upgrades after a huge time sync is not friendly to time contrained ppl. You are asking us to do 8 M+ a week just to unlock said gear. And that M+ gear is out pasing raid gear. Acquisition and ilvl. Meaning the true raid progression I have always enjoyed is over.

It’s now about farming M + so that you can outgear the content. My current 2 raid aweek guild is at 7/8 heroic. And has taken down 2 mythic bosses in the two nights we have tried it. Normally in past interations of the game this is where progression takes over.

Log in raid nights and make slow progress until we master mechanics ands defeat the boss.

Instead with group loot and vault and M+gear scaling it’s become…

Log in raid night learn mechanics. No need to master because i lvl advantage can be leveraged. Proceed to grind better gear in M+ cause you need those mats to craft it,
the drops are better than raid gear and the vault is better than anything.

Master looting group loot means. Gear is no longer something you can expect to earn and maintain unless you are top performing which in itself requires M+ GRIND to match and surpass progression drops… creating a self sustained and self defeating time sync grind…so silly!

COUPLED with vault you have effectively increased the required time sync. I expected to sync in 8-10 hrs a week and continue to raid like I always did. But your new system is designed to reward time sync.

Raid logging isn’t something we love to do. But as we age time is less available.

This is a game.

Responsibilities take presedence.

That’s how we ended up with so many raid loggers to begin with. We have aged with your game into responsibility in real life. It sucks that I can’t play 30 or 40 hrs a week but it sucks more not to have a meaningful real life. I can’t just forgoe responsability like i could maybe in college.

Your time sync design means that there needs to be a choice made. Wow vs real life.

Wow looses when it comes to me and likely alot of your base.

If you aren’t seeing your numbers increase this may be why.

So I’m switching to classic. Because i can still raid log that.

It sucks that to be competitive in one facet of the game like raiding I now have to grind another. Classic design atleast respects that.

Seems that your retail set up really expect us to sacrife too much. Either sleep, or quality time with loved ones, or be underemployed… I’m not going to blow up my life over a game… fix your design or keep loosing sensible adults…

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This post is cringe and you should feel bad about it, lol.

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Cause cringe is totally a word I expect to hear from sensible adults…

If you and I don’t fall in the same category that’s fine. Learn to move on rather than over spill negativity, bud… that’s the true cringe…

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Cringe is writing two pages of whining that M+ exists just because you feel gear envy.

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Weird, I don’t feel left behind. Stop talking as if you are a representative because you aren’t.

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The entire OP can be summed up as “M+ exists and that makes me mad”, and this guy acts like he’s the voice of the community when M+ is currently the most popular core end-game pillar.

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M+ did pretty much kill raiding for anyone who does non-mythic raid progression and doesn’t set aside time to run these chore dungeons.

I agree with the OP there. It’s not a Dragonflight issue, it’s been an issue since Legion. Just gets worse with them fluffing it more with things like valor without something comparable in raids.

I’ve always felt that a universal PVE currency system could do wonders for the flexibility of end game activities, but their reliance on the vault for everything just makes M+ far too lucrative to avoid. My casual AOTC guild made M+ a requirement, lol. I wager they’re not the only one.

I want to enjoy M+ on the side here and there, but I don’t wanna have to meet key difficulty quotas to enjoy raid prog.

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You probably shouldn’t think you speak for all. Take care of responsibilities, have time for family, and still have time for my hobby.

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You used the word “casual”. Deepmind calculated you meant to use the word “bad”. A guild that is doing content you can do casually after a few beers setting a requirement to spend dozens of hours a week is not a casual guild… it’s just a bad hardcore guild.

I did causal raiding in Nathria. You just show up and kill bosses. I didn’t have to do anything to AOTC kill Sire in 9.0.

People on this forum need to take a step back sometimes and realize that sometimes… they actually just need to get good or find players who aren’t terrible.

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I agree. I completely agree. Group mentality in this game has taken a weird turn.

But it’s justified. M+ provides way better gear than we’d get in progression and it’s so much easier to get… If you’re willing to dedicate even more time to running group activities outside of raid. Activities gated by other players and random luck with key and affix combos.

No matter where you look right now, the meta is to outgear the raid drops as much as possible. Because you can do that with dungeons rather easily if you spend the time and effort getting into them, climbing the ladder, and getting through them.

M+ is a great activity if you enjoy M+. But if you were here to raid as your only primary group activity then M+ kinda killed that. If you’re not outgearing the raid, you’re likely not raiding at the level I was anymore.

Back when I was heavily into raiding, I’d do the initial grind to get ready for the raid. The dungeon sets, etc… I’d do that once, then I’d rely on raid for my drops and the supplemental currencies to fill in the spots. I liked that.

Now it’s like you can’t really raid primarily for gear anymore. Raid gear is supplemental and the expectation is to get your gearing up elsewhere. I don’t like it so I don’t do much in the way of endgame anymore.

I blame my feelings on the matter entirely on the vault system and how lucrative M+ is.

I’ll give a good example of this right now. Tier.

Tier you get from M+ can be upgraded with valor. Tier drops from raid cannot be upgraded.

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this thread is for core supporters only guys

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It’s not justified. Stop being such cringe sweatlords if you aren’t good at the game. Substituting time investment for a lack of skill is yucky and leads to burn-out. Asking Blizzard to remove content because players in your guild don’t want to get good and instead are willing to grind like lunatics is actually dumb and requires some self-reflection.

Literally just find some chill folks to play with and play with them. Just because the guild you fell into is sweaty about easy content doesn’t mean that is the guild you have to be in.

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The only thing in this thread that’s cringe are your edgy replies, lol.

I don’t want M+ to be removed. I enjoy M+ on the side when I get a chance to run it. I just think the reward system currently favors it way too much.

I do want the vault removed. I do not like the vault. I want the valor system expanded upon and to include things like raid. I want a better supplemental gear system. But that’s my only gripe.

Play it off however you want though, try to insult my abilities, I don’t care. It’s a video game. I’m cool not raiding, I’ve made peace with it and my friends and I do TTRPGs now instead. Happy enough playing solo when I log in here.

But that doesn’t change the fact that M+ killed raiding for me, and it likely did for a lot of other people.

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Yeah i think you understand my point.

I enjoy M+ too but it’s not my main thing.

The problem with the design is making one engame pathway dependent on another.

This has happened with pvp before. And it’s now Happening with M+.

They should be in my opinion each their own branch which doesn’t depend on the other.

They seem to have fixed the pve /pvp dynamic now they need to address raid/m+ dynamic.

I could switch my available raid time to Pure M + and do well. But it’s raiding i like…

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The cringe is blaming the match that was used to burn down the house instead of the fact that you struck the match. The truth is that you and your guild were not on the same wave length, you just never knew because there were no alternatives. It’s like blaming other MMOs for killing your guild for instance - if that happens, the truth was simply they had a need that went unfulfilled before.

If your guild wants to degen for gear, that’s what they’ve always wanted to do but couldn’t. You were not on the same page.

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Who asked bluzzard to remove content?

Guy you are very reactive to the wrong things.

The point is that one activity should not necesitate another.

Once upon a time we needed to raid to pvp. Then we needed to pvp to raid.

They fixed it with design not with delition of the content.

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They don’t? AOTC was cleared week 1 with no M+ Vault loot.

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Just ignore that guy. He’s but even trying to understand the point. His whole thing is

“How do i get offended and how do i offend someone”

Brings my point home, tbh. It’s a lack of irl happiness that leads to toxicity like this. Sad to see but very real.

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He’s being kind of aggressive about it but he’s not wrong.

You say you liked progression raiding back during MC. Well, good news, you can still progression raid just like that. You don’t need to do M+ to outgear the content. You can find all sorts of casual beer-league guilds who will have zero expectations of you filling out your vault each week.

But you’re talking in the same breath about doing heroic and mythic progression, and then you’re mad that you are expected to do these extra “chores” along the way. The thing is, you’re conflating a much more casual vanilla experience with the much more hardcore-focused raid progression system we have today.

You can either raid like back during your chill non-serious non-meta days in vanilla and cap out at normal/heroic raid, or you can get more serious and progress into mythic.

No one gets to have it both ways. That’s all. :dracthyr_shrug:

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