Shared Sub?

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

bfa only sold 3.4m copies at launch and legion sold only 3.3 so if classic does well i cant blame them to want to prop it up.

TBC - 2.4 million at launch
Wrath - 2.8 million at launch
Cataclysm - 3.3 million
Mists: 2.7 million
Warlords of Draenor: 3.3 million
Legion: 3.3 million
BFA: 3.4 million

What? Are you saying that no company makes several similar products? I think you should really stop talking business or economics. Not to mention that they could possibly make more money by changing the way we pay for those games.

Not that saying that at all, but all those games that are “similar” to each other aren’t doing as well as World of Warcraft. Many are free to play with a fraction of the player base, but all of the options of expansions and microtransactions.

You tell me I should stop talking business or economics, but yet, again, I showed you what Blizzard’s business plan and philosophy is going to take us. They already decided to combine subs, which I predicted long before it was announced.

In regards to making more money? Blizzard could do many things, like make expansions that don’t cause people like you to demand things like a Legacy server, i.e. Classic. But now that it’s here, they’ve decided to give you a ton more than you actually want. You don’t have to play Retail.

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

Exactly. You get full access to our game, we get partial access to your game. And again, It is not possible for Classic players to negatively impact a retail server. Retail players on the other hand will have a huge negative impact on Classic servers. Vanilla was capped at ~3k, 90% of a server being taken up by retail tourists is a disaster waiting to happen. Retail shards so it doesn’t matter if there is 1 or 100,000 players on a server.

To be fair, I have zero sympathy for your plight. This was my experience in Vanilla, and if you’re correct, it will be your experience in Classic.

I’m a roleplayer, and in Vanilla, anti-RP players would regularly troll and negatively impact my experience, for no reason other than that they could.

https://www.engadget.com/2014/10/08/wow-archivist-class-protests-and-the-million-gnome-march/

Ask anyone from a Vanilla RP server like, say, Argent Dawn and ask them about the routine Blackrock spam trolls. Blackrock would regularly collapse due to the server’s instability, so they’d roll on my realm and do exactly what you fear - troll or spam or do whatever it is that you’re afraid of.

“So you’re just okay with Classic being trolled?” Not really, but as many of the people here tell me - they want the Vanilla experience, warts and all. Well, here are the warts. And it comes from other players.

But not to fear, you have tools that I didn’t have in Vanilla. Right-click report auto-ignores most of these people.

[Thanen-the-scryers (Thanen)]

TBC - 2.4 million at launch
Wrath - 2.8 million at launch
Cataclysm - 3.3 million
Mists: 2.7 million
Warlords of Draenor: 3.3 million
Legion: 3.3 million
BFA: 3.4 million

wow vanilla 6m subs
tbc 9m subs
wrath 12m subs
cata 9m subs
mop 10m subs
wod 5.5m subs
legion ???
bfa ???

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

wow vanilla 6m subs
tbc 9m subs
wrath 12m subs
cata 9m subs
mop 10m subs
wod 5.5m subs
legion ???
bfa ???

Exactly.

Expansions pay for themselves. The subs are almost all profit.

You do know that the total cost to run WoW and make expansions is about $50 million per year, right? 3.4 subs at 50 bucks a pop? 160.3 million? More than enough to run WoW for three years. Every sub is gravy.

[Arrowblight-jubeithos (Arrowblight)]

Nothing wrong with getting access to retail and classic from one sub. Blizzard should’ve made it you can get classic access only for a reduced price as well. I don’t want to prop up that poor excuse for WoW that is also know as BfA.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

So are you. You get 110 levels of content just for your subscription.

And I am saying I do not want it and want them to be separate. Have you actually been following the conversation?

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

Nothing wrong with getting access to retail and classic from one sub. Blizzard should’ve made it you can get classic access only for a reduced price as well. I don’t want to prop up that poor excuse for WoW that is also know as BfA.

Bad for business, Blizzard would never go for it. And here’s why:

If classic is any less than retail in a subscription, there are many people who will move to Classic just to pay less. And that’s lost money to Blizzard, when their whole idea of making money with Classic is only to be a positive.

Suppose you have $15 for retail sub, and say, $10 for a Classic sub, that’s $5 for every player who switches from retail to classic. Put a number, any number. 10k players? $50k in lost revenue per month. Has to made up by gaining 5k more players than Classic is already pulling in. 100k making the switch? $500k in lost revenue, meaning 50k more players needed to make up for that lost revenue. And that’s not including any expansions those people might have been buying for Retail that they aren’t now.

That means lost income from subs, lost income from future expansions, and lost income for their monetization schemes. It shrinks that business model.

While it would “preferable” for some that they can choose which version of WoW they support, it isn’t a sound business plan.

And I am saying I do not want it and want them to be separate. Have you actually been following the conversation?

I have. And you want it to be separate because you despise and hate retail players, like me. Repeatedly, you have stated that you do not want the combine sub because you don’t want to have anything to do with a bunch of people on an internet forum who play a game that you don’t support, whom you tell that they are getting Classic for free, even when they’re paying a sub.

You want them separate, but haven’t given an objective reason why.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

You are spending your money on a subscription to World of Warcraft. They will know the stats of who plays where and how much. Whether or not they share them is up to Blizzard. But we’re paying for the same thing in the end.

I am not concerned about how blizzard makes money, or their metrics about who is playing what. I want them separate because of the reasons given time and again about the impact it will have on Classic. Flooding modern WoW with players can only help it. Flooding Classic, especially at launch, will be damaging to server populations.

I have made case after case for options that would result in retail players getting to play classic for free, but after the servers have been able to stabilize, but the resident handwringer retail crowd shouted them down as “entitled” and “elitist”.

The backlash is from some (not all) retail players who want the second game for free with no strings attached and no difference of access than those coming to play ONLY classic.

What? Are you saying that no company makes several similar products? I think you should really stop talking business or economics. Not to mention that they could possibly make more money by changing the way we pay for those games.

Right? It’s like saying auto companies should not sell more than 1 model of car so that they do not “put themselves in competition with themselves”. It is a ludicrous nothingburger argument.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Plan to play both to varying degrees so I’m totally fine w/ it.

Which is completely understandable. You literally have nothing to lose.

[Wínter-twisting-nether]

I should have clarified as well that I’ve had times where I really disliked retail so I do understand to a degree where the seperate subs peeps are coming from

I just don’t think they are combined to falsely prop up the numbers specifically.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Oh I am not casting shade on you. It is human nature to be OK when given something, whether or not you intend to use that thing. Seriously, it’s cool.

The damage is not the players themselves flooding the Classic servers, but the timing of the flood. We are talking about what SHOULD be 3-5k capped servers at the most crucial point of their lifespans. Even sharding is not going to be enough to avert the disaster.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

“So you’re just okay with Classic being trolled?” Not really, but as many of the people here tell me - they want the Vanilla experience, warts and all. Well, here are the warts. And it comes from other players.

Except I didn’t play on the cybersex servers during retail, so that’s not the vanilla experience, try again princess.

[Thanen-the-scryers (Thanen)]

all i can say is classic wow will bring back so many old players its just all good for wow.

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

I am not concerned about how blizzard makes money, or their metrics about who is playing what. I want them separate because of the reasons given time and again about the impact it will have on Classic. Flooding modern WoW with players can only help it. Flooding Classic, especially at launch , will be damaging to server populations.

And that’s why your demands fall flat and already have been disregarded.

Separate games make for bad business. Why would Blizzard support this? I’ve already shown that Classic as a concept doesn’t allow for growth - no expansions, no micro-transactions. It’s a very limited business model on its own.

Separate games split the larger community. Why would Blizzard support this? They have always been about inclusion, not separation. It’s baked into the design of Vanilla WoW. Yet, you want them to separate that “core” of your Classic-only players from Retail.

I have made case after case for options that would result in retail players getting to play classic for free, but after the servers have been able to stabilize, but the resident handwringer retail crowd shouted them down as “entitled” and “elitist”.

You hide behind buzzwords like “entitled” and “elitist” while also demanding that your desires be heeded, which offer no actual benefit to Blizzard.

The only wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth are those who are trying to reverse that decision which they dislike.

You want the private server experience, not the Vanilla experience. Closed doors to anyone who plays Retail, because they couldn’t possibly enjoy both.

The backlash is from some (not all) retail players who want the second game for free with no strings attached and no difference of access than those coming to play ONLY classic.

Free vanilla milkshake with the diet coke. You still have to pay for the diet coke, even if all you do is drink the vanilla milkshake.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

To be fair, I have zero sympathy for your plight.

Wow, big shocker there.

I have. And you want it to be separate because you despise and hate retail players, like me.

How many times do I have to specify that it is you in particular I hate and despise?

You want them separate, but haven’t given an objective reason why.

Is your monitor even on? Reasons have been given to you till we are blue in the face, but this is you:

To be fair, I have zero sympathy for your plight.

Objective reasons have been given to you on a silver platter. You simply do not care.

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

Except I didn’t play on the cybersex servers during retail, so that’s not the vanilla experience, try again princess.

It was my experience, so you’ll forgive me if I have no sympathy now that you get to enjoy that experience, too.

Vanilla experience. Warts and all.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

Who most likely won’t stick around very long because the server community, the thing that made vanilla so great, is going to be garbage since 90% of the server will be retail tourists.

[Thanen-the-scryers (Thanen)]

a lot of old players will be coming back im one of them.old guild will be reforming for raids and you should want classic to do better then bfa because it will kick retail in the butt to be better.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

You don’t want vanilla fans to like Classic, got it. At least that’s out in the open now.

[Manzo-argent-dawn (Manzo)]

Wow, big shocker there.

I’ve been trying to get you to see that this is good, but no, you’re quick to tell me that my sob story is not sympathetic, but suddenly, yours is so important that you can’t learn from my experience.

There is no benefit to your suggestions other than for yourself.

Your type didn’t heed the issues I had in Vanilla, now you expect people to heed your issues in Classic?

Who most likely won’t stick around very long because the server community, the thing that made vanilla so great, is going to be garbage since 90% of the server will be retail tourists.

Big shocker that most players in Classic will be tourists and casuals.

Blizzard donut, as stated by Mike Morhaime itself, was designed to attract a core audience, surrounded by a much larger section of casuals, and that includes trials and tourists.