Um yeah? #1You only get one lockout per week, no need to impress other guilds. #2 If you’re killing bosses and your guild doesn’t mind the extra healing needed, nobody will actually care if you get 1 shot few and far between. War/Druid’s drop all the time in non hardcore guilds, when you’re running 3 to 4, even 5 tanks in progression at times who cares. This isn’t a hardcore guild we’re talking about here, yanks get dropped and the boss falls over anyway literally all the time.
That’s not even the point. The thing here is that if your guild lets you raid in a cloth dress every week, then no one is going to stop you from doing that and no one really cares. If that’s all this discussion was about, I wouldn’t have bothered and neither would have 90% of the rest of the folks.
Viability has nothing to do with what your guild does or does not allow. That’s aesthetic choice, about as useful to discuss as loot councils vs DKP or class leads vs none.
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Your viability applies to the group you run with. If you’re able to down the bosses you attempt to main tank despite the fact you might get rarely 1shot on 2 of 8 bosses, that makes you viable for that guild. Who cares about guilds who you’re not viable for, you’re not running with them.
No, it doesn’t. This is just subjective nonsense.
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That’s exactly my point. Whether or not a shaman tank is viable depends on whether or not the guild youre in cares about the very slim chance of getting 1shot, which only exists on really 2 maybe 3 encounters. It’s really not a big problem in casual guilds, so what the tank died? Next tank plz. I’m killing bosses and getting more and more gear as our guilds progress, I’m viable in the role my guild has me in, and 90% of the time that is tanking.
It went well, got some tanking time on skull for Luci/Gehen/Baron/Harbinger we had a few issues with pulls before mana so I had the warriors taunt off to maintain aggro
Imagine having to slow down on damage with a tank, let alone one whose only redeeming value is their ability to frontload threat.
Anything is viable if you lower your standards enough.
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Well yeah that’s kind of my point. Usually the standard is downing the content, which i do. Take a look at the logs i just linked. Mages doing over 400dps I’d say that’s not too bad.
You don’t HAVE to tank BWL as a shaman to get Emberweave. This isn’t ride or die shaman tanking in order to get shaman tank gear. It’s suggested to at least clear BWL (with warrior) until your guild is comfortable with the possibility of a shaman tank. If I’m not mistaken feral tanks are in a somewhat similar position?
So there is a “tier list” of tanking and shaman tanks are hugging paladin tanks. I don’t know about you but I consider paladin tanks viable in the truest of words.
They aren’t. A Druid can be the progression Tank for every fight with only the gear available up to each fight, including Broodlord’s worst-case critical MS. Being 10k+ higher on EH without trying too hard is why Druids endure so much.
Which makes discussion of viability entirely pointless if you just resolve the matter with “whatever you guild allows.” At that point, wear cloth, use a skinning knife, and /dance every 20 sec for all we care because if viability is subjective, everyone and everything is viable. Which is just another way of saying it doesn’t matter.
They have deficiencies with survival too… which makes them unsuitable for progression.
Played with a few, in 5 man’s, scholo and DMW,. The shaman was speced for it and MC geared at the time tho.
He did better then most warriors.
I’ve also played with Lock tanks in 5 man’s.
As long as they are geared and speced, any off tank class can tank.
It’s just uncommon, and usually a little pointless since specing for it isn’t raid spec, and you require raid gear at 60 to be able to tank 5 man’s in an offtank class
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Essentially, yes. Every class has the ability to deal threat and has some means of boosting their defensiveness beyond just wearing the gear. There’s a reason my SS recreation took awhile so that I could plug in any class once I got done. Warlocks in particular gain a TON of Effective Health by being deep Demonology and using Soul Link with a Void Walker, plus a 15% Stamina modifier in the very first tier (something no other class can get other than Druids with Heart of the Wild at 20%). Warriors and Paladins would be godlike if they had a Stamina modifier like that.
But that’s the whole point of the SS, so I can compare every class in an apples-to-apples manner. How much EH can a Shadow Priest, Demo Warlock, Prot Paladin, etc achieve if they focus only on it for a given boss/tier? Is it enough to survive the burst scenario? What about TPS? TTL? And so on…
By mapping out the extremes I can see what peak ability actually looks like to determine viability on the one hand and optimal on the other.
I think it’s more scenario and niche based.
Most off tanks can do a decent job and even in raid as long as everyone is watching their threat,
Plenty of videos of warlocks tanking golemagg Magmadar, and even Ony.
Plenty of bear tanks can do it too, and I’m sure shamans can as well.
But with the current raids and fire resistance, it’s just not as viable for every encounter.
Warriors are great has generalized single-target tanks.
Bear druids are great at mult-target tanking when compared to warriors, but fall short on single Target.
And locks and shamans are great at single target tanking, but rely heavily on fire damage.
It’s more that warriors are generally better all round since you can pick and choose which classes to bring to a raid.
Warr dies and offtank needs to pick up, well if it’s fire resistant, that’s either bear or another war, so best to just bring another warr.
Bears are good at a few things like suppression room whelp tanking, but in most scenarios when you’re going to bring six-eight tanks, it’s just easier to bring warriors because they’re more reliable, and maybe an odd bear here or there.
Oh there’s no doubts that Warriors are generally the kings of Tanking, but there are more scenarios than people give credit for where Druids and even Paladins outshine. The biggest liability of a Druid is lack of fear-break, but being Alliance negates that worry with Fear Ward.
I’ll have the side-by-side breakdown soon.
I was main tank on baron last night so this will be tested in the weeks to come for sure.
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Lmao, just no. I mean sure, but good luck finding a guild who can down bosses with a tank in cloth wielding a skinning knife. On the other hand, it’s super easy to get invited to raid and geared up as a shaman tank when you can tank 100% of trash, and pretty much every boss with a negligible chance of being 1shot, where warrior tanks and Druid tanks in a casual or non hard-core get dropped on the regular anyway. It literally does not matter AT ALL to the majority of guilds, like I said, tanks die all the time and the boss falls over. So what we can’t survive the hardest hitting abilities in a raid, it literally doesn’t matter.
Just yes. You’re setting a subjective standard based upon guild preference as a definition for viability. That has no use in a discussion when people look to standards of viability to decide whether a spec, a gear set, a strategy, etc, is something worth even trying.
If every guide said “well if your guild doesn’t mind… do whatever” as the strategy for a boss fight… you could write that for every boss from Razorgore to Nefarian and state nothing more.
That’s how a subjective standard works: it isn’t a standard at all.
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Lol what? What do you think dating is? Or choosing between job offers? Or between two places to live? Subjective standards, standards which fluctuate based on the people/person they effect. Viability IS a subjective standard by nature. The group you run with dictates your viability, if they can kill bosses with you at a rate they enjoy then you are viable. I tank and we kill bosses, therefor I’m viable, and we cleared most of the raid in week 1. We’re a bunch of casuals and our warrior tanks drop occasionally, so it’s really not a huge deal if I get a big ol one shot if I’m tanking one of two bosses in the entire raid who have a chance to.
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